Curt Storring 0:00

Welcome to the Dad.Work podcast. My name is Curt Storring, your host on The founder of Dad.Work. Today I talked to Chris Plourde. This was an excellent conversation that really fired me up inside. I was feeling energetic after this conversation. And that's super interesting because honestly, I had only met Chris recently, we got connected on one of the social platforms and started talking is like, Man, this guy has definitely got some great stuff to say and, and he killed it. He really, really killed it. We go deep, talking about exploring your own judgments and defensiveness, the importance of men's groups in Chris's life, the shift that happens when you start to accept that things happen for you, not to you, therapy as a mental fitness for your brain, letting go of shame and guilt, digging beneath the anger to get to the buried emotions, breath work as a healing tool, developing forgiveness and gratitude for your own parents. The difference between raising boys and girls, Chris is experienced as a conscious father leading a teenage son including Big talks around things like consent, and why action is the necessary ingredient to change your life. Chris Plourde is a Los Angeles based conscious performance coach, consultant speaker Mind Body breathwork meditation instructor with over 23 years of experience, Chris has traveled both nationally and internationally speaking and educating on the physical, mental and emotional aspects of wellness and life. He has created, presented and coached hundreds of retreats and workshops for a variety of well known companies and organizations such as Walt Disney, Equinox, YPO chapters, tender greens, enterprise car rental, Xerox worldwide produce, Lululemon, Twitter, export.org, and many more, Chris has mentored and consulted with celebrities, business executives, top fitness professionals and military Special Ops personnel. As a former chief executive with men's teams and organizations, he has mentored many men to find their authentic self and create leadership qualities which they could bring into their families, communities and businesses. Chris has two amazing kids nine and 15 years old and his solid loving relationship with his wife of 16 years he owes his happy marriage to open clear communication and the balance between masculine and feminine. He loves working with couples to clarify and strengthen their own relationships. And Chris's goal is to help individuals and organizations gain clarity and work toward what they want in life, create new habits and get into massive action by unleashing the greatness that is already there and owning their unique stories. To learn more about Chris, you can check him out on his website, Chrisplourde.com. That's chrisplourde.com on Instagram, you can find him at CoachChrisPlourde. Same spelling with coach in the front. Without further ado, this one fired me up and it's just a great honest, vulnerable conversation. Let's get into the conversation with Chris.

Chris Plourde thank you for joining me. Thank you for coming on. And like I said just before this, you and I have this connection which just established a for me with my last guest and a brewer. So I love that there's like the synchronicity forming here and I'm super pumped to have you on so welcome and thank you.

Chris Plourde 2:50

Right on. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. I love your brand and what you're doing for dads and men and you know what we get to share with each other? We don't we're not in this alone.

Curt Storring 3:01

Yeah, oh, man, that's such a good, good place to start actually not doing this alone. And that's what I love with all the groups I'm a part of in the communities is like, you can go really far alone. And I like I think I'm pretty badass at doing stuff alone. But man, was it ever different when I joined groups? When I started talking to other men? It's like, man, it's like supercharging it? Is that something that you've experienced? Who just like doing it? Oh

Chris Plourde 3:21

my god. Yeah, I was told when I joined my Men's Team 12 organization 12 years ago. It was like, You're the you're a do it yourself motherfucker. Like, like you like to do every that's what they there's an actual label for that. But I thought I could take on the world by myself and do everything. And I would just overwhelm myself all the time and burnout because it was just I wanted to take on and go in the fast lane all the time. And I realized, you know, I don't have to do it alone. I got other people community that that I can rely on that. They are there for me and as I am for them. So

Curt Storring 4:01

yeah, what men's group are you're part of our women's organization.

Chris Plourde 4:05

So we had what it was called in Southern California. There's there's a bunch of different divisions. It was a part of full monty which is now Men's Team International. But I've worked with all of these men's organizations for about 12 years through Southern California and through I think Canada to was Why am I blanking? We were part of the what is yours? The

Curt Storring 4:32

the one that I'm a part of in my local community is called samurai brotherhood.

Chris Plourde 4:36

What's the bigger picture the is there an over umbrella that

Curt Storring 4:39

is that's the overall umbrella we've got sort of similar groups within that. There's also like every man and mankind project Yeah, and stuff like that. So I'm not mankind work. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Plourde 4:50

Yeah. Weekends, I've done Sterling weekend full spectrum or like discovery. So that's

Curt Storring 4:56

been a part got. You've done all that men's work. That's amazing. Okay, those They're actually really good because sometimes I struggled to go like, well, what are the local things? Right? Because a lot of these groups are very local. And so some guys are like, well, I don't know where to go. And I'm like, you know, Samurai every man mankind. So I'm glad that you gave a couple more, just because I'm always like, well, I don't know. And there's a lot of guys who listen who are in California on the west coast. So that's fantastic. I would love to actually start with your journey as a father. You've got you just said a teenager now. And almost, what do you say nine year old daughter? Nine

year old girl? Yeah, nine year old girl. Okay, so

I'm super interested in just like, what that transition was like for you. And if it was, like, Oh, this is, you know, pretty easy. I've done my work already. And it's just like learning how to be a father or, for me. It was like, oh, no, I don't know anything. And I'm really hurting. So what was that like for you to become a dad?

Chris Plourde 5:50

First of all, it just it blew my heart wide open. I was you with my wife. You know, she didn't know she could get pregnant. We literally had a conversation three days before we found out she was pregnant. What if I can't have kids? What if this what if that she originally didn't want kids when we first met, and through time, it was just like this natural thing that occurred and we had all the signs that she was pregnant. But she took pregnancy tests that for some reason came back negative. And her she didn't she didn't think she could get pregnant cuz she hadn't had her cycle for two years, literally. And then we went to the doctor think it was a fibroid, because her mother and her sister both had them. And she was like, There's no way. And lo and behold, were not only finding out we're pregnant, but we found out it was a boy and all this other stuff in the same day. And we're just like going from what are we going to do if we can't get pregnant to? We're going to we are pregnant, and it's gonna be a boy. And we already had a name pick kind of picked out Jake and it was just like this mind blowing thing and what an adventure. So yeah, that was that was kind of the Hello. You're gonna be a dad soon. So it's been

Curt Storring 7:06

How did you navigate that? Was that? Like, did it bring up things in you? Had you already been doing the sort of men's work? Where were you at? No,

Chris Plourde 7:12

I wasn't I wasn't a part of the men's organization yet in teams. We left the doctor's and the first stop we made was it the books Barnes and Noble bookstore, how to like parenting book that we bought. It was like, what? Okay, well, how are we going to do this. And we just kind of went with it. At first, I thought, let's go home, let's let's move back to my home, which is in South Boston. So we thought that that was the that was the way we got to be around family and which is which is important for some. And that's our initial go to but all the signs were just like, No, you got to stay in Southern California can name dozens of different things that were just like, stay here, this is your home, everything's gonna be fine. And I tell you, it was it was one of those things of, of course, you're scared. You're, you're you're but you're hopeful, you know what I mean, if you're leading with love, and you're just embracing this little thing, this little creature, this this, this part of you, it just was like, unbelievable. And I remember seeing my wife hold my son for the first time. And not only that, I see this beautiful being but I looked at her and the way she looked at him and I was just I fell deeper in love with who she was, as a woman, it was really just this just heart opening experience, unlike anything I've ever, ever had in my entire life. So

Curt Storring 8:36

Wow. Yeah, that is that's a beautiful perspective. And I think that's encouraging for a lot of men to, to think about that. Because often we get into this habit of you know, we've got the kids now and it's all on the kids, but to see your wife, your partner in this other it's almost like this maturation into motherhood, that maybe comes more naturally because it's a physical process for the mother and we alongside that also have to go through our own transformation be a father to show up and so what is your I guess what are like the foundational aspects of the relationship that you have with your partner that have carried you into that to be able to see her and support her? Is that has that changed over the years? Or do you have this like foundational thing that you believe

Chris Plourde 9:18

it's it's evolved but it's communication if when it comes down to it it's communication and truth? You know, of course we got we had a beautiful first two and a half years of our relationship we just got along so well we did we fight we bickered, but we didn't really fight. The fighting didn't really come along, so to speak, we never gotten you know, anything that we got close to separating but when we got in fights, it was over. You know, of course you look at money you look at parenting, how we parent, you know the difference between a father the difference between a mother the belief systems we had, but you know, the the whole point is, how truthful and how open can you be with your partner Right when something's going on, and you're she's feeling a certain way, you know, it's not about fixing her, this is about about being there for her and holding that space for her and saying, hey, just let me know when you're ready to talk. And and then going into those hard conversations that you don't want to have, you know, that has saved that is been just not having that has been the destruction of so many marriages, because people just don't know how to talk. They don't know how to talk to the or fee or express what they're feeling. So I think when it comes down to it is we made this commitment to ourselves that we're going to do our inner work for us, first and foremost, right? The looking at who we are, the feeling of our emotions, getting vulnerable, getting, you know, having the courage to, to go through those things and heal those things that kind of impacted us in our past. And then how to rewire that way of being so that we can be not only the best versions of ourselves, but in that case, you're being the example to your kids. And, and and becoming closer over the years.

Curt Storring 11:10

Yeah, absolutely. That's so good to see. I was just talking to Adam before this actually about CO regulation, and about how our kids see what we do in certain situations to learn not what we necessarily tell them. But how they watch us do this. And I want to get into doing the work. That's like a huge part of what I want to talk to you about. But first, my question is about how do you have those hard conversations, like when there's something that comes up? It's not this huge fight, like you said, but I'm talking about like, your own body? How do you create a container so that you, as the husband as the man, the partner don't react as defensive, for example, cuz that's a huge problem I see is a lot of guys just won't go there. Because they know if their wife's like, well, you know, here's my feeling, they're gonna be like, Oh, well, it wasn't me, or like, why did you do this? Or blame, blame? Blame? So like, can you maybe walk us through what it might look like for a man to go like, Hey, here's a conversation I need to have not be triggered, be with his body, like what comes up for you?

Chris Plourde 12:08

I think it's, it's really looking at the context of it all, is what what is the energy I'm putting off? Right? If I'm constantly if we're in a relationship, that we're constantly blaming one another, for, for something they're doing? Well, there's a judgment there that's going on. Right. And, and the judgment is just an unresolved trigger, right? We went through our training, you know, our teacher used to put us in front of breathwork training in front of one another, if we had issues and go, Okay, I want you to start this conversation with a judgment I have about you, that's really about me, and then state it, and then go a judgment I have, it's about you, that's really about me, and then they go back and forth. And it was like, Holy shit, this is, this is about me, this is not about the other person, they've already shown you who they are, right? And when we can look at ourselves and go, What is it about me? And how am I holding the space? Why am I getting defensive right now? What is that trigger getting lit up inside of me? And, and being able to communicate with that, or take a step back from that hostile situation that you're in, and go Alright, I'm going to step back for a second. Now, when everything has calmed down, and our nervous system has gone back to normal, let's have that conversation about what just went on. Right. But it's starting with ourselves first. And I can't stress that enough. Because I you know, I coach, so many different clients and couples that point the finger to to the other person. And it's just it's, it's, it's not the right thing to do. It's like, how do I hold my context walking into a situation? Right, we teach this thing in the men's work. It's like, if you were to write a couple results before you go back into that house, if you were to walk out after a big argument and go, What is the the results I want to have happen here and state those as if they've already happened? i We communicated clearly we, we we talked about the issues, we we came to an agreement about what this situation is with my kids, right? Expectations, verse agreements, we'll get into that in a little bit. But what from that? What is it that I want to hold? What is that energy? So loving? Husband, right, or caring dad or something that when it starts to go, right, if it goes awry, that energy you hold, it's going to be something that you can turn back to and go inside and say, All right, back to that loving husband. Great. Right? Support. That's the context is everything. And we have the ability to control that right and it takes work. It's not going to happen overnight. It's takes practice time and time again. You know, when if you do blow up, which we always do, we still do. go back and have that conversation, you know, talk about what just happened, share what just happened for you, that's gonna make all the difference in the world.

Curt Storring 15:09

It sounds to me like a lot of this comes back to like really taking radical personal responsibility for for everything for your life, how you show up, because it's always like you said, it's always about you. It's everybody, anyone else, you know, other people when, when someone says, you know, you're making me angry, it's always like, well, you know, the thing that happened that I did may cause you to react in anger. Yeah, thing. And so like taking that full on responsibility. And that leads me into doing all this work. One of the things I saw on your bio, is that you are an internal perspective shift. And I was like, Oh, that's good. Because it's all about what's happening in our own heads and our own experience, not about anyone else. And so what I would like to do is just get you to sort of define self healing work, and then maybe go through the whys, the fundamentals. And I'd like to ask afterwards, just some, like specific examples of practices or whatever. But can you maybe give guys a sense of like, why and how to start doing this self healing, personal development type work from that place of like, radical responsibility, right?

Chris Plourde 16:16

So thing we've been programmed, probably before the age of 20, we've had different people influence in our lives influence us in our lives, right. So we've had many situations that we've went through some traumatic, some just overwhelming that caused us to, to internalize to do things a certain way. Right. And, and some of those things are absolutely horrific, that you never want to wish on anybody your entire life. Right. But the fact of the matter is, these things happened, you grew up where you grew up, right, that situation that that you went through that, that again, could have been so traumatic, that you're still dealing with, you know, some people have PTSD from war, some people, you know, have been in these really abusive relationships, whatever the case may be, they happened. But there are some amazing lessons if you really accept that that happened for me, as opposed to to me, then our shift or the shift starts to happen. And how we get ourselves to look at those situations we go cake. What did I learn from the situation that I was in? This is the heart this is this is not easy to do. But what I learned from the situation that I was in, and what are the gifts that came out of that? Right example I use all the time is abuse client I have that has been abused, right? Mentally and emotionally, physically growing up, right. And she ended up becoming and just completely shut down. You can't talk you're anything she did was just totally taken down. You know, alcoholic mother, abusive stepdad. And what she is now is one of the most incredible women not only mother, but women that people just adore and embrace, like I've never seen, because she has that incredible compassion, about her that ability to listen because she wasn't listened to, right, this this warm heart that is just wants to give to the world, because she's emerging out of something that that was kept down for so long. So can you look at that programming that has happened and ask yourself, Does this programming still work for me to where I want to go now? Right? A lot of us are making decisions off of where we don't want to go off of fear off of off of running from a certain place, as opposed to shifting to this is where I deserve to be this is where I want to go. So I want to run towards that. Right? And if I want to go up that mountain, are these tools that I've acquired over the years going to help me get there? Or is this way of doing thing, doing things that I've done in the past that have gotten me up those other mountains? Can I now use this to get there? Or do I need to shift do I need to change my habits, right habits are going to take six to eight weeks to really change for you to burn those new neural pathways in there. So it's going to take work to do it. But the whole thing and we use this in the men's work all the time is if you always do what you've always done, you're always going to get what you always got. So we need to shift that perspective on life has happened to us as opposed to for us and once we can embrace that, I think your whole vision of what life is really opens up to what life could be.

Curt Storring 19:46

And how do you get there? Like how do you maybe you're like ah, you know, yeah, but like mine was real bad or or or maybe you just have this like voice in your head where it's like, well, I can't like I am so fucked up. for whatever happened to me my trauma, and like, what do you how do you help guys even be like, you can do this? But like, oh, I don't know how, what is the sort of first step or two to get

Chris Plourde 20:10

there? Right? I think it's first asking for help, right? Like going to a place where you can, whether it's a men's team or therapist, if something really traumatic happen you, you're going to need somebody to work to work with you through that traumatic experience. Right. And, and, and therapy is not a I love therapy. It's like mental fitness for the brain, right? And I remember this is, you know, my mom, when I told her years ago that I went to therapy, she she started crying, she was what did I do wrong? Right? She didn't do anything wrong, right? She just she was in this place of always, everything needs to be perfect. She's an amazing mom. But you know, but that was the programming she had, you know, in our parents did the best jobs they did with the tools that they had, right. And again, we're unwinding a lot of these, these, this programming that has happened, right, in order to get there. So how can we now ask for help, right, and not try to go through this alone, because there's so many men that I'm sure that are listening to this right now that are suffering, and going, I just want to be free within myself, right? I want to be I want to be fulfilled every single day. Well, it's gonna take some work, right. And even some, I've watched, you know, a man that has been in the work for 18 years. He went through a really traumatic thing is a child's you know, again, you know, something that he would never wish on anybody, you know, and he has kids, and he had this really, this life that just wasn't getting him where he wanted to go scarcity issues, his relationship is really messed up. Ice is just getting by with work every single month. And when he did the work, and I was the one to finally say, you need to go and deal with this situation that you've never dealt with. And I had to get real with them. And I actually found him a good friend of mine who's who's a therapist that deals with with trauma. And he finally called her and started going to her when it's giving me chills, because within a year's time, not only his his marriage, like completely turned around, right, he found this incredible job that he's he's been in for the past six months, he's gonna I talked to him the other day, it's gonna be out of debt in a month. And he's put a down payment on a new test. But, I mean, he's happy, uh, two of his sons are in college now. I mean, he's just like, he is transformed, because he finally got to look at that one situation that he dealt with, that he never dealt with for 18 years, even though we had all these amazing men around him. You know, when he did some great things, and he just lovable heart open person, there was one thing he needed to look at. And when he found that programming, that he was making decisions based upon that, a lot of things have shifted for him in his life. And it's just amazing to see. So the some of it is get help, like really go with the people get free of whatever you're holding on to because I guarantee there's there's a ton of us out there, more than you know, that have been through a similar situation that you've been through.

Curt Storring 23:16

So yeah, I love how you said that. It wasn't like, well, you know, maybe you can go get help, and it's okay. It's just like, get help, like, obviously. And I love that it's gotten to that point where, you know, like you said, your mother going like, oh, no, I've screwed up. What's wrong? Like, why did you go because if you only go to therapy, if you're, you're screwed up or broken, or whatever, like, that's just not the case. So let's just take it like very clear, I if you couldn't understand already, by just the way Chris said that, like get help. Like, obviously, there's nothing wrong with that, like, why would you do this, then you don't have the tools. Nobody taught you? How could you possibly be expected to do this yourself? Like, it makes no sense. And yet this culture that we're in all of these programming that we get as men growing up, it's just like, if you get help, you're weak, whatever. And it's like, no, that is so stupid. Get the help you need. Join a group of men, like get people to reflect upon you so that you can actually do the things like you need to do to get help. Is there anything that you hear from men who still don't want to get help? And it's like, Okay, here's how we can actually get them to, like, believe in the power of this or even men who come to you as coach and client? Like, what are the common ways that men are like, I don't know if this is right, I don't know if I can go there and that you help them see like, now we can actually do amazing work.

Chris Plourde 24:26

Well, I you know, that's a great question. And and, you know, one of the things I've learned as a coach is they're going to get there when when they decide to get there. Right. And because I used to want it more for them then and then they wanted it for themselves. And also, I think the best way to enroll is to share stories. The best is to not tell them that you need to do this now or you're going to do bla bla men don't want to hear that they put up this armor this defense and go no, you can't tell me what to do. Do but it's it's sharing stories of, hey, this is where I was, or this is where this person was and, and through going and talking about these emotions, these feelings, these things that keep us locked down, they were able to get free, right? If you if you are burying shame and guilt, and you're not talking about it, it's growing in power. When you let that shame and guilt out shame being I'm fucked up. Guilt being I fucked up, right? i Right. So shame is I am right. My whole being is guilt is I did something wrong, sorry, guilt is I did something wrong. So when you keep those things within yourself a little bit of guilt, okay, because it keeps us on the right track, not a ton. But you've let that out. And there's a freedom that starts to diminish in power, right. And we don't want to hold that anymore. We want to be able to speak about it. And by the way, there is a story that all of you have to tell that that could save another person, right. And some of you I know are just like, I can't do this. But once you tell your story, you're being that example. You're stepping into that leadership role. Right? I think leadership now is about being vulnerable. Having the courage to be vulnerable. It's not what we see today out in the world, right? That everything is perfect and dandy and making x amount of dollars. So look at me, blah, blah, blah, it's it's truly digging into yourself and going, You know what, I'm going to share my story, but I'm going to come from sharing my story from an ownership place, not from a victim place. If you can come from that ownership place, this happened for me, as opposed to victim, your whole trajectory, again, starts to open up and you start to really step into that leader that you that you are, I think we all have it within us.

Curt Storring 27:00

I agree. 100% agree. And one of the things as you touched on responsibility again there. I like to tell guys, and I shared this on Instagram email, like most the guys I talked to is that it's not your fault. And by by it's not your fault. I mean, all the things that happened to you, all the bad things, a trauma that you hold on, it's not your fault. But it's your responsibility, you know, and separating fault and responsibility, I think is a very freeing concept. Because I personally had a lot of shame. Like this must be because I'm bad, and a lot of guilt because this must be because I did something as a child that made people not love me, that was my story. And so separating that like, okay, these things happen to me, and it's not my fault. But again, and now that I know that happening for me, I can take responsibility to move away from those or to change my habits. So I love just that focus on responsibility. And I wonder if any of these will hit so so tell me if not, but I would love to hear if you have any particular practices for self work, inner healing work on like anger, or anxiety or depression. And I'd love like, if any of those come up if you're like, oh, yeah, I did this, or I've worked with people on this. To share those Does anything come up for anger, for example, like I struggle with anger a lot. As a young dad, like I was angry, I was mean, I was scary. So if I'm like a guy listening, and I'm like, really fuckin angry, I don't know what to do for the work. And he doesn't even come up with like, where to start?

Chris Plourde 28:28

I think it's a first of all, I had the worst, you know, Italian Catholic temper to growing up. I mean, I would just rage and scream and I would turn I would forget things. That's how mad I would get, you know, but I think first of all, and there's a number of things you can do to look at that anger, right? First, anger is covering up for sadness, something within ourselves that that we just don't want the world to see. So why don't we put anger on top of that to protect our, our being so to speak, right? So Beneath that is, is where we get to dig to right beneath that is the sadness is is the depression is is all of that, that we that that is where the freedom lies if we're able to look within that emotion, right. So, meditation practice is an amazing one. I think you just put a meditation on today onto your Instagram site, right? You don't have to start off for a long period of time can be five minutes, but it's sitting with yourself and being still right. You can do box breathing, which I'm sure some of your guests have done, which the Navy SEALs use full on Holotropic breathwork, which we both are a part of, which by the way meant the Navy SEALs are now using this breathwork practice in their training to eliminate any unresolved trauma that that is there, right. You're letting this yell out the screen in the middle of it. Some of us i That's why I teach it to get that The layers to get those layers peeled off. But it's really important that, that we are able to express those things. Because when we breathe, and we breed that deeply, we have stuck trauma or stuck emotions in us, right. And they say the issues are in the tissues. So if we're able to go into that, and feel the fields have the courage to feel the fields, right, I love when people cry. Now, I used to be a sympathetic crier. I was a really super sensitive kid. And and I built up this armor in this athletic ability in this what I thought it was to be a man over the years. And it wasn't till I joined the men's team, that I was able to break that down and see that the reflection, right, and part of the breathing and the feeling of those emotions brought that sensitive kid back, right that I wanted, it wasn't about me, or I can hammer everything and take care of it all myself. But that's when the anger started to subside when I started to feel those feelings. And I started to allow myself to to be sad. I remember coming out here 20 years ago, given myself permission for the first time, I'm sad today. And that's okay. I'm not weak. I'm just sad, right? I'm not I'm not, I'm not stopping, I'm not going to go sit and eat a, you know, a pint of ice cream or drink a case of beer or whatever the case may be. But I'm just going to give myself permission for a few hours to be sad. And that's okay. Right? It's, it's in underneath those layers of anger. Having the courage to go into there, if you want to talk about being a true warrior in life, right? I want you to feel your fields, I want you to go into those places that most don't dare to. And then you're gonna see the light, your life unfolds in a big way.

Curt Storring 31:41

So man, that is so onpoint I love that that fires me up so much like you want to be a big strong guy. You want to do the toughest things. And this happened to me in a breathwork session to be quite honest. Like I'm, I think I've talked a lot about in this podcast about breath work, I had my teacher Amanda on to talk about, you know, the breathe breathing process that we do. And I was in a session. And I was like, I don't really want to feel these things. Like I'm judging myself. This is all coming up. And the facilitators like, to strong men do hard things. That's like, Well, yeah, just like what could be harder than feeling your feelings. That's like, fuck, like, oh, man, that is so, so good. So you need courage. It's not weak. It's the farthest thing from weak. So man, and you're like, oh, I don't wanna feel my feelings like, man. You know, I don't say it. I never say that. But when it comes to your feelings, be tough. Be a warrior, because men, that is where this stuff happens.

Chris Plourde 32:33

It's where the new man, it's the new modern masculine man. Right? It's modern masculinity, it's not the stuff we were taught, it's a different kinds. It's not this new age, soft, sensitive type of guy stuff, it's, it's, it's stepping in and being the man, you're supposed to be the were You were put on this earth to be so that your kids don't have to do this really hard work that you're doing that they can thrive that you're being the example for them. Right. And, and, and I love going in, you know, even to companies and organizations that that and showing them that this is this is a new paradigm, if you want to change the culture of your company, right? This is the way to do it. Is is getting them to breathe is getting them to, to really feel the fields so that you're you're coming from the right side of the brain, you're coming from the more Jedi sage place of the brain, literally, we can take we can look at the gray matter move if we had an MRI scan, you know, you come from survival from judgment and left side of the brain to Sage Jedi compassion, innovation, action. All of that is what we want to eventually shift towards, by burning those new neural pathways and getting people to come from that space. I mean, that's that's the, the beauty of this.

Curt Storring 33:51

Yeah, and I'm glad you said it's not that sort of like a weak man that we've been growing up with, at least in my generation. I had a man named Isaac Kotick, on a couple of weeks ago, and he has this hero rise masculine archetype deck. And it's like a, it's a great way to just like deal with the archetypes and make it very, very real for men. And what he was saying is, there was this reaction in like, the 90s ish, to the 50s, stoic man. And it was then this very, like, effeminate, soft man. And what I'm seeing now is that as we get into modern times, we're almost like we had a pendulum. One side was this like hardcore, stoic, feel no feelings, smoke a cigar in the waiting room, don't talk to your kids, no eye contact. And then we were like, Oh, well, let's not be like that at all, because it was so damaging. But then we lost this masculine edge and like, where is the masculinity? And so what I'm seeing now is like a lot of men are now shifting back into the center, where they can access both sides of that masculine sort of pendulum, but from a place of grounded intention, rather than like having to be one way or another. And I think that's a lot. What we're talking about here is like find your core, find your groundedness so that you can access the entire range. because it is right. Sometimes, you know, different situations or for different actions.

Chris Plourde 35:06

Yeah, yeah. You know, and just to speak upon that, you know, I think men were looking for intimacy and not intimacy. I thought intimacy was one thing growing up, you know, it was sex. And that's that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about getting to have these deep, really heartfelt conversations that with everyone in your life, not let's just talk about sports. And you know, we're going to go drinking tonight. But let's let's really have these deep in depth conversations. I think so many, so many of us are missing that in our lives, and we don't even know it. There's an in unfulfillment that we have. That's that's, that's, we can't access. But it's having that ability to talk about the hard things. And going to that place where I see you and you see me, and and sharing that brotherhood, you know that that's what this is all about.

Curt Storring 35:58

It reminds me the intimacy piece reminds me that I think it was David Stegman, another guest on the show who said, Men are craving deep connections and intimacy. But there are few invitations. And I just went like, oh, yeah, that's exactly right. Because like, when was the last time you saw a buddy? And you're just like, hey, man, how are you? How are you doing right now? And just listening and just saying, like, I see you, I'm here for you like, yeah, it doesn't happen. And yet, we're all looking for that. And that's usually why bad things happen. Because we don't know how to do that healthy.

Chris Plourde 36:27

their fear, their fear of being judged. It's like, what are you talking about you? Yeah, maybe this person isn't they're looking at you going? Okay, well, what's wrong with him? Well, no, what's wrong with you? We want to have these deep, these deep things. I just want to hold space, I want to listen to you. Right? That's all we want is just to be heard to be seen, you know?

Curt Storring 36:46

Yeah, I want to, I want to shift gears just a little bit, and go into one of the questions I had for you. Which was about passing things on from our parents, as fathers, and how to identify those things, and how to become more intentional, because I talked to so many guys are like, I swore I wasn't going to be like my father. And either I'm exactly like him, or like, I'm the complete opposite to such a degree that it actually is damaging. So can you just talk about your ideas behind like, how to identify those how to not pass those things on? Yeah. And just like how to live your own life? Well,

Chris Plourde 37:18

yeah, I think first and foremost, it's, it's I said this a little earlier, but it's the acceptance of who your parents are, and knowing that they did the best job with the tools that they had. So I'll give you an example. You know, my father lost his mom, when he was a teenager, he was the only child, right? He went through this really traumatic thing, his dad basically just just gave him money to live in, bought him a car when he was old enough, and this and that, and he just never had any way of processing these emotions. He was very introverted, he never had a chance to really feel, you know, later in life, we lost the younger sister, his daughter, you know, and so we had that to process too. So he's had this, this, these losses that nobody taught him how to grieve, right? He was been overweight, he's an alcoholic, he's still alive, you know, still dealing, battling with alcoholism, you know, and I got to a point where I just had to accept Him and love Him for who He was, you know, I got a chance to thank my dad for for all of the gifts that he's given me, you know, all the lessons that he's given me, right, I think we get to a point when we can really thank our dads, for the jobs that they have done. Then we prepare them for death, we prepare them for where they need to go to know that's all they want to do is know that they did a great job. Right? And, and same thing with with mothers, right? Like, I'm more like my mom's personality, right? She's very extroverted, she's a pleaser, she's, you know, wants everything to be perfect want to do it all on her own, you know, she's, I'm more like my mom. But what I realized, you know, I came to terms with who she was, as well. And, and the amazing loving person that she is, and the hard, you know, upbringing she had, and having eight brothers and sisters, and you know, all of this, but she gave so much to us unconditionally, as much as she could, that again, it's the acceptance and thank you, mom, for what you have given me now, what is my soul here to do? Right? You I grew up in a situation in a town that, you know, I wouldn't at the time, I was like, I wish I lived here. I wish I was a little more privileged if we had more money if it wasn't so rough, if I didn't have so many problems, you know, if I didn't, you know, get in fights all the time or get bullied and then eventually learned how to fight and you know, none of that I grew up exactly where I needed to grow up, and I'm so happy I did that. So it's that acceptance of now going, where do I want to go? Right, like, are we looking at these situations and having compassion for what they did and how they did it? Right. Whether it's uncles, mothers, fathers, you know, whoever it was They gave us the best they could. And if we can truly believe that, then we can start to move on and go, You know what this is where I want to go, these are, this is the path that I'm going to carve in my life. And and, and that's that. And then when I carve this path, my son and my daughter are going to be that much better off because I did the work on myself to actually be sure they watched me do it on a regular basis. And that's all I can do is leave here, leave this place a better better than I found it. And that's what I'm looking to do.

Curt Storring 40:32

Yeah, you're touching on there. I think like a lot of men's work with Father wounds and Mother wounds and, and healing and forgiveness. And it's so interesting that you say that because what I what I'm taking from this is that you almost have to look at your relationship as a child before you can then look at your intentional way of being as a father. Does that sound true to you? Like you got to do that work as forgiving? And like thanking your parents before you you do the like the fatherhood stuff?

Chris Plourde 41:02

Well, I think the thinking comes from success. Once you reach a level, it's hard to do it just right away, you know, the first you doing the work and then there's a level of success, we you want to take at least is where we took from Sterling anyway, he had he had a you know, I'm not giving the weekend away. But it's it's being able to thank from a level of succeeding first. And once you get into that place of hey, I've reached a certain point in my life. Now I can look at my parents and go wow, okay, you wouldn't have reached this place without them without these hard situations that they came into, like, Thank you for not only the direct lessons you gave me, but the indirect lessons you gave me. Right, those eight indirect lessons, I think a lot of people still have a hard time getting their heads around. You know, if my dad didn't take care of himself, or he drank too much. Well, guess what, or buried his emotions. You know, he did that. That's fine. You know, but I'm accepting you. But you know what, I'm going to talk about my emotions. I'm going to take care of myself, right? That's the choice I need to make. I don't have to live his life. I can do what I want to do and what my soul is calling for me to do.

Curt Storring 42:12

Yeah, yeah, there's some good reminders in here. And there's meditations there's men's group weekend's or Sterling weekend's, like you said, where you can go into all this sort of healing work, too. And some of it requires anger and judgment. Like that's been my experience. It took me a long time to forgive and and then thank my own parents, because I felt so much anger towards them. And like, oh, well, why didn't you do this? And it was that victim mindset, but like you're saying, as soon as I was able to be like, these are all Yes, like, where our darkest shadows are, often are the wellsprings of our greatest gifts. So if you look into your life, and you're like, Man, I am so good at X Y, Zed, it's because like, probably, you had like a really dark part on the opposite flip side of that coin. So I just love that man. There's so many so much work that people can do here.

Chris Plourde 42:58

100% Yeah, the shadow go into the chateau. And that's where the freedom lies. It really.

Curt Storring 43:03

Yeah. And you just said, Son and daughter? And it reminded me of my other question, which is like, there must be a difference between raising boys and girls. And I get asked. And I don't know, like, I only have sons, they only come in like one flavor their little blonde boys. But like, can you go into the difference that you've seen raising a son and raising a daughter? And like, how do we navigate that? And

Chris Plourde 43:24

it's funny, you know, they say, No, there's so many different good terms, but you prepare your son for life by challenging him and you become the the man you would want her to marry. Right? So become that man, you would want her to marry. Right? And you're challenging your son in a way that getting him ready for life you're not here trying to be his his best friend, even though we share you know, our surf sessions together, we go out mountain biking, and we do these fun have these talks? When it comes down to it? I'm holding boundaries and and preparing actually them both for life. Right? If I'm not holding those boundaries, they're not feeling safe. Right? They don't we have a friend, one of his good friends. You know, the parents are super loose on the boundaries all the time, you know, they say they're going to do something and follow up with it. You know, they're a lot younger than us. We're a little bit older parents, then then the norm in our neighborhood. But you see the difference in the way that he acts, his friend acts out all the time, right? Because those boundaries aren't there. And I actually had a conversation with him about this. I go, do you see why we're holding these boundaries up for you? Right, because I know that makes you feel safe, that we're here for you that when you get when you leave home and maybe three years, right, that you're ready for what life is going to present to you. Right, you're ready for those challenges. And at the same time, I'm not trying to hold my daughter back who's a super spirited, super spirited like she challenged, challenging us every step of the way. But so loving at the same time, I'm not going to stop her flow of energy. I'm going to be the riverbanks to her River, I'm going to let her flow. And I'm just going to guide her down this this whitewater that she's in, there's no doubt she is going to be she is a powerhouse, but she will be a force. And I'm going to make I want to be there just just guiding in the right way. Because no matter what I say they're going to, they're going to get to a point where they're both probably going to challenge me or say if you and whatever the case may be, but when that happens, I want to know that I did the best job I could, and prepared them the best way I knew how to prepare them for

Curt Storring 45:43

that is such a beautiful statement riverbanks to her River, that just captures it man. What about becoming a parent to a teenager? How has that sort of showed up in your life and challenged you along the way as a dad?

Chris Plourde 45:57

This is crazy, you know, especially a teenage boy right now. You know, I grew up Catholic. So having this, this, these these? You know, I remember having in puberty having thoughts, right? When I had to go to confession to like, like, like sexual thoughts, right? Oh, I thought about that. I'm not I'm wrong. I have to go to confess this to the priests. I'm just like, Are you kidding me right now. Like, this is what it is growing up, like these boys are going through puberty, they have hormones, I'm not going to try to like pretend that it's, it's, it's not happening. So having these conversations around, you know, protection and respecting the women as if you would respect your, your mother, your sister we talk about all the time, you know, like he would say something about one of his friends, you know, all sleeping around too much. And did you know, I was like, Well, did you ever have a conversation with him about that, you know, and what that is and how he could be hurting these girls. And he has no, I mean, eventually he did. And then we just had a conversation the other day with this other mom who has teenage boys 1817 and 14, around the me to movement, even now we have to be really careful. And I just talked to him about this the other day after we get out of the water surfing. And I was like, you know, you got to be really you you're you have an IT, people are going to have it in for you if you're not extremely careful. And you ask for permission. Like you got to be clear. If you're going to go in for a kiss or a touch whatever be clear, ask for permission. Be respect, don't pretend it's not there. Because I had a friend literally growing up who would you know, he was sleeping around all the time through high school through college. He eventually got into he went to prison for rape, multiple rape charges. Right? And, and I told him that I was like, buddy, this this stuff really happens. You know, and it could have been, I don't think I think it was date rape, but it doesn't matter. You're You're responsible, and you need to be careful with where you're at respect these women asked for permission. Right? He even had this one this this thing that he told us about where, you know, this girl was was the kiss, he was like, No, I'm done. And he literally was just like, you know, put the boundary up and was like, I'm walking out and I was like, I'm really proud of you for for knowing that. You know, this isn't just about you know, fooling around. There's, there's actual respect that you got to have for yourself. And for the women that are around you. So I go and I tell him all the time. I'm really proud of the man you where you are right now and becoming. So keep up the great work.

Curt Storring 48:38

Wow, yeah, that's some big conversations. And how else do you have those conversations? Like I presume that it sounds like you're super open with him. But when it comes to things like sex and drugs and all the rest, that kind of stuff, like for me, I had like one conversation. I was like 10 or 12 or something like that. And and that was it. Then it was like you're on your own media. Like, especially these days, I don't want like I had to learn, you know, the hard way through the internet and friends and all the rest. But it wasn't like as insidious it is, as it is these days. Like I don't want my kids learning it through Tik Tok because I'm like, scared to have that conversation. So what do those other conversations look like? And like, how do you have a respectful conversation where they actually listen to you? Rather than like, okay, dad, whatever.

Chris Plourde 49:20

Well, I think they're so uncomfortable. You know, no matter what, just men, women, whoever's listening to this, they are, I mean, I was uncomfortable. I remember my mom did the same thing when I was a teenager, I'm going to sit you down and have this really awkward conversation are just like, Oh, get me out of here. And so it comes in bits and pieces, you know, he'll he'll bring things up and we'll just kind of go there and and, and talk to him about certain things and just be like, Okay, be on the lookout for this. You know, condoms, this and that, you know, whatever, STDs, pregnancy, you know, this could happen to you right now. And if you're not careful, then you're going to get into this situation, right. So I think what I would give, the advice I would give is keep it in segments, it doesn't have to be this one big, awkward conversation. But when you see the openings happen when they start to bring things up or hint around, you know, ask them questions, what do you think about that? What do you know this to be? Right? And then go, well, actually, this is this, and you might have heard it this way. Or maybe send them articles, right? Because they're gonna, they're gonna learn so much, especially now that they all have phones, they're already on it, but just be there to guide them and be open to them, right? Because they want to talk about this, right? They want to be, they don't want to have to walk up to you and go this, this happened. And I think my both my wife and I have been really, really open with these talks, you know, we share some of the things that that we have gone through and where and that gives them permission to go to talk to us. So you know, again, doesn't have to be a big thing. But always keep it in the dialogue. And the more they talk about it, the easier it gets, the more we're able to talk about it, the easier it gets.

Curt Storring 51:09

Right. Okay. And I'm just curious, have you gone through? Are you planning on going through, like an initiation or rite of passage for your son? How do you think about that, if at all?

Chris Plourde 51:18

Well, you know, I think about that all the time, because, you know, going through these weekends, they were an initiation for us. Right? And, you know, I've been a part of leading a lot of these weekends, too. So, you know, yes, the answer is yes. Do I know exactly what that is yet? No, I want to, you know, especially during COVID, there were these boys weekends, and this and that, and that that kind of gets shut down, we are working on currently working on creating a new weekend, right now, there may be one cut that comes off of that, that might be a boy's weekend. But I think it's really important just to initiate him in some way, shape, or form, have him go through these, these these challenging things to meet himself. You know, take them through these breathwork sessions, whatever the case may be, because it's it's really, it's really sad to, to see people so lost, and to want to be accepted into into the society and what is truly being a man all about. And, you know, fortunately, we got an opportunity to go through that multiple times. And it was really kind of it set us into our power, so to speak. And so there there is I get my eyes out. And if not, I'm going to create something, you know, not just for him. But for all the teenagers that are coming up that need that need this, they really need to feel like they're a part of something. So they don't have to go through it and go through this hard times alone in their 30s and 40s, or 50s, or however old you are.

Curt Storring 52:54

The next question about having a teenage son is how else are you preparing him for for manhood, like one of the things I just talked to a guest, Nikki willekes, he runs journeyman, which is like this amazing organization that helps men and young men do initiatory rites of passages and have these weekends together. But one of the things he said was like we are missing in this modern culture, the sense of village or community, and one of the greatest things for young boys is to have like other men speak into their lives. So are you guys doing anything like that? Does he have activities or mentors or anything like that? How do you think about it?

Chris Plourde 53:30

Well, we have a whole my whole community right now is has been a part of, I mean, the men are now on a men's team, we were part of a whole division before. But now we created our own men's team. He was in younger ages on a boys team that we created based on this. So he's had that exposure. You know, he is working at the age of 15, he works at a surf shop, which is which I'm really proud of him for taking that initiative and making his own money now. But, but yes, I if, when I jump on something, when something comes out that I'm like, this is the right time for you to do it, for you to go to this weekend or week long, whatever the case may be, then absolutely, I'm going to put them there. And maybe I'll even look into you know, the journeyman or something like that. But this is something we've been talking about because they all have boys, not 15 but they're all younger. So, this is a topic that that we are talking or discussing on a regular basis. So Jake, my son will probably be the first one to do it within our community. And you know, and he has all his, you know, kind of uncles within this community, so to speak. So when that happens, we'll have to have to come back on our seat tell you how that goes.

Curt Storring 54:49

So yeah, no, I love that. He's got that just through you like through your friendships. So the importance of men, the fathers having relationships, bringing other men around, and that's we're trying to do as well, like I have had a hard time in my life making friends moved around a ton as a kid, and it's just like no legacy friends. And so it's been a lot of work now to through my Men's organizations and things like that. Good friends and just having guys over, including the kids in the conversations like that can be enough. If that's all you've gone. And just like, yeah, bringing them into all those things. And like, I'm, I'm looking forward to January 1, we do like a polar plunge in the ocean. Oh, yeah, steer. He's like, Oh, do I want to go? And I was like, No, you can't if you want. So he like stuck his head. And he's like, I kind of did it. And this year, I'm like, you're coming man. Like, you know, he's gonna be almost nine. It's like, you're plunging with us. So I need them around. Man is so so important. And it's something that you know, I just feel for my own self. Like, I wish I had more of make me feel more grounded, I

Chris Plourde 55:42

think Yeah. Yeah. No, he, you know, it's funny, he actually takes cold showers every day. He's where he jumps in these very for school, he takes it every single day. So and I love that, if not, he's in the ocean, it's pretty chilly right here right now.

Curt Storring 55:57

So that's compared to

Chris Plourde 56:00

I was like, I'm shocked cuz I didn't force it on him. I was just like, hey, try this and he just loves out, wakes him up and makes him feel it's really, really beneficial. But our entire community to I was gonna say, we all do, we all do the work, you know, we're a part of Journey work, you know, do plant medicine that really kind of really keeps us connected and together. And, and, and bringing them into it someday is going to be, I think vital, because of what it's given us and how it's connected us in our community. It's been a life changing thing, not only for our community, but for my wife and I and helping us really connect in this, this deep spiritual level, unlike, you know, unlike some other marriages, I think we now have a spiritual partnership. So,

Curt Storring 56:47

yeah, yeah, man, I, I hear guys talking about that sometimes too. And not enough, but like having fatherhood as a spiritual discipline, but also a relationship. And then for me, I were sort of just getting to that phase, because for a long time, it was sort of good. And we like to say, you know, we kind of trauma bonded originally, we were really young, and our sort of wounds connected. But we've I've been able to grow at the same sort of pathway on the same path, and say, and now it's like this other level to like, experience life and experience the cosmos and experience my heart. And man that is just like, so beautiful to hear that that's like a spiritual thing for you guys, and doing plant medicines and stuff like that, which I'm a huge proponent of, and I talked about it very briefly on a podcast a little while ago with Ben Gorecki. But highly recommend doing stuff like that responsibly. And with a guide. 100% gonna do that. The what I was just gonna think I was just gonna ask, I should say is like, how do you build community, like, I know, you've been in the work a long time. So it's like, probably happens to just like, putting yourself out there. But if I'm a guy, and I don't really have like, any community around me, and this is sounding like really rejuvenating, where do you start? Do you have any tips for like, how to build communities like that?

Chris Plourde 57:59

Yeah, well, like for me, you know, becoming part of just just listening and watching and seeing men that might have something that you might want. And what I mean by that is like, wow, there's something really unique about that, man, there's something that that I don't I can't put words on it. But what is that? Right. And so when I started seeing that for some clients, and talking to some of their, their wives, which I knew prior to meeting them, it was like, I got a chance to really know who they are. And it was, I think, taking that chance and going, Hey, let's, let's have a conversation, right? Get into relationship with people and have the courage to get into a conversation and just say, Hey, do you got a couple minutes to go for coffee, go for a beer go for, you know, dinner, whatever the case may be, you know, tell me about some of the work you've been doing. Right, then it's like that invitation naturally opens up. And I think, as humans, we really want to be there for one another, you know, we really do. It's not about being a burden. And I think, you know, being a recovering, asking for help. person as you were man, as you were to, when you ask, people really want to help, right? It's not You're not being a burden on them, right? We want to be in service. It's our intuitive, we just want to help that's part of it. So know that if somebody was to come to you and say, Hey, I love what you have, can you you know, would you like to have conversation? Chances are you probably say yes, right? Go after it. Do some research. There's tons of stuff out there for you to go after, and be a part of, but have the courage to do it. Right. Don't just go well. There's nothing in my neighborhood. There's nothing in my city. It's there. We get the internet at our fingertips. How many zoom calls can you be on right? Just get into action, and the universe will deliver maybe not in the way that you expected but What the universe responds to is action, deliberate action. So get into it and start just getting a little uncomfortable, because that's where the change is going to occur.

Curt Storring 1:00:11

That's, you know, that's a perfect place to leave it even though I would love to go for like hours. Like we're just saying, I'm going to wrap it up there on that action highlight, because men, it's all your responsibility. Whether you like it or not, you're the only one is going to be able to make your life any better. Take action. Chris, what do you do? How do you help men? And where can people find that help?

Chris Plourde 1:00:33

Yeah, no, thank you. Like I said, I'm a conscious performance coach, I work with individuals, I work with teams, I work with, you know, companies, or just you name it to really help people really find that connection within themselves to get uncomfortable to get into action and run towards what they want in life. As opposed to running away from what they don't want. Because I think if you can switch that paradigm, and and and disrupt our old way of being, man, like I said a bunch of times, I mean, the world is right there for you, you know, you're ready to step into your power right there. My Websites ChrisPlourde.com I think it's in the show notes. Coach at CoachChrisPlourde is my IG. Yeah, Discovery calls if you're looking to just kind of dig in a little more and have a quick conversation about what this could be. I got some courses coming out. And a bunch of you know, weekend's and like I said, we're working on a bunch of great things for 2022 so I'm excited to share it with with the men of the of the world and the women because so

Curt Storring 1:01:43

amazing man Well this has been like a week connected sort of randomly getting podcast guests and it was just like, Okay, I'm gonna see how this goes. But man I gotta tell you I am feeling fired up now. I really really connecting with you and I appreciate that you share so vulnerably so thank you man.

Chris Plourde 1:01:57

Thanks so much Curt really appreciate you having me on thank you

Curt Storring 1:02:06

that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. It means the world to find out more about everything that we talked about in the episode today, including Show Notes resources and links to subscribe leave a review work with us go to dad dot work slash pod. That's di d dot w o RK slash pod. type that into your browser just like a normal URL, Dad dot work slash pod. To find everything there you need to become a better man, a better partner and a better father. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.

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