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Today’s guest is Dennis McNamara.

We go deep talking about:

  • The fundamental principles of money, wealth and investments, and why fathers need to figure this stuff out
  • How to make the most of what you have now to set a future plan for you and your family
  • Finding a balance between time, money and health
  • Why it’s really important to be in a men’s group with other dads
  • Being confident, living with intention and having a more deep and more engaged relationship with those around you
  • The importance of an emergency fund
  • And way more depth than you’d usually find in a conversation about finances!

Dennis McNamara is a dad to a three year old, a husband to his college sweetheart, and a comprehensive financial planner at, and co-founder of, wHealth (pronounced “wealth”) Advisors in Red Bank, NJ.

After graduating university in 2011 Dennis was teetering on a mental and emotional breakdown. With $7,000 to his name, Dennis spent a year exchanging his physical labor for a roof over his head on permaculture farms in Portugal and Costa Rica. After learning more about himself through these experiences he dedicated himself to rigorously pursuing purposeful work instead of job titles.

Since then, he’s been the US Director of Business Development at a social enterprise firm, a financial analyst at the private wealth management arm of Goldman Sachs, and most recently – in 2019 – made the leap to establish his own financial planning firm – wHealth Advisors.

Dennis has been mentioned in Forbes, US News & World Report, and Financial Advisor Magazine. He holds the financial designations of Certified Financial Planner (CFP), Chartered Financial Consultant (ChFC), Accredited Investment Fiduciary (AIF), and is a Certified Student Loan Professional (CSLP).

Outside of wHealth Advisors he is passionate about compounding healthy habits so that he can show up as the best version of himself – whether that be as a parent, a partner, or a professional.

You can follow along his Instagram @thewhealthadvisor or find more about the work he does with wHealth Advisors at There, you can also subscribe to his monthly newsletter which is as much about finances as it is about wellness, personal optimization, and taking meaningful steps to upgrading your life.

Mentioned on this episode:

Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals

Curt Storring 0:00

Welcome to the Dad.Work podcast. My name is Curt Storring, your host and the founder of Dad.Work. Welcome to episode number 64 financial fitness for fathers with Dennis McNamara, this is such a cool episode guys, I wanted to have Dennis on because finances are one of the things that just like fatherhood, we are never taught, but has a huge impact in our lives. In fact, finances are one of the things that are even more triggering for men than sex in some cases. I know this because I have run. And we have run some processes in men's groups that I've been a part of where we will spend some time talking about sex and our relationship to it and what it means to us. And you know, the history that we have with it and the story we had growing up. And that's tough. We've also done it, where we talk about the same things about money. What does it mean to us? How much do we have? What is our debt? Like? What are our investments? Like? How much do we make, and honestly, the money one is harder for probably most men, and that's saying something. And so having this conversation with Dennis was fantastic, because he is in a men's group he has done men's, and he is able to talk about these things with us in a way that is much deeper than just sort of spreadsheets and numbers. And so the first, probably half, maybe a little bit more of this conversation. We talk about sort of ideas and fundamentals of men's work and financial work and processes that you can do to get clear on what finances means. And whether you think about money as a tool or as having inherent value in itself. Dennis gives us some processes and prompts to go deeper into our relationship to money. We talk about the ROI of men's work, which is really fun. And then I asked Dennis for his sort of Finance Fundamentals for fathers. These are basic things that well they don't necessarily apply to everyone are the things that I wish I knew growing up. But the things that I wish didn't have to be taught in the school of hard knocks, if you will, because it hurts to learn these lessons, and it's much easier to be told them and so wherever you are on your finance journey, whether you are beholden to finances as almost being a slave driver in your life, or whether you are comfortable, I think there's something in here for everyone from the very base level fundamentals to get a check on where you're at and how you are relating to finances, all the way up to the men's work that goes behind this the vulnerability that is required to share and to go there to ask yourself the questions and connect with your partner in a way that you're both able to communicate and get your needs met and deal with the realities of your life is such a touchy subject. Dennis McNamara is a dad with three year old a husband to his college sweetheart and a comprehensive financial planner and the co founder of Wealth Advisors in Red Bank New Jersey. After graduating university in 2011, Dennis was teetering on mental and emotional breakdown with $7,000 to his name Dennis spent a year exchanging his physical labor for a roof over his head on permaculture farms in Portugal in Costa Rica. After learning more about himself through these experiences, he dedicated himself to rigorously pursuing purposeful work instead of job titles. Since then, he's been the US Director of Business Development at a social enterprise firm, a financial analyst at the private wealth management arm of Goldman Sachs, and most recently in 2019 made the leap to establish his own financial planning firm Wealth Advisors, and that's spelled w h EA l th advisors. Dennis has been mentioned in Forbes, US News and World Report and financial advisor magazine. He holds the financial designations of Certified Financial Planner, chartered financial consultant accredited investment fiduciary and is a certified student loan professional. Outside of Wealth Advisors, he is passionate about compounding healthy habits so that he can show up as the best version of himself. Whether that be as a parent, a partner or professional, you can find Dennis online at his website, wealth FA comm that's w, where you can also sign up for his monthly newsletter, which is as much about finances as it is about wellness, personal optimization, taking meaningful steps to upgrade your life. Or you can follow along on Instagram at the wealth advisor that's at th e w h EALTHADVISO Are the wealth advisor. Alright, Dad's there's a lot to unpack here. I'm sure there's more conversations to be had in the future about wealth and finances and investments and all that kind of stuff. Because again, it's not just about the numbers. It's about the feelings behind the numbers. I think we touched on both sides of those. We touched on the sort of fundamentals and the principles at the end of this episode. And we also talked about the the men's work or the mental side of the numbers and what money means to us at the beginning of this episode. So I hope you get something out of this episode, obviously, let me know let Dennis know. And if you haven't already, please make sure you leave a review on Apple or Spotify. I think Spotify just added a rating system. Just hop on to the Apple podcast app or the Spotify app, find the Dad.Work podcast and hit rating and review and leave a star rating and if you have 27 seconds leave us a review today that would be super appreciated and it's one of the best ways to help this. Get in the hands of more dads who need the work. So that is it for

For now, let's get into Episode number 64 with Dennis McNamara, here we go.

Alright dads, welcome to another episode of the Dad.Work Podcast. I'm here with Dennis McNamara of Wealth Advisors. And I'm extremely, extremely excited to get into this with Dennis, because money is one of these topics that is perhaps most triggering to a lot of people. And we were just talking before we hit record here on how intense and vulnerable it can be to go here. So Dennis, first of all, thank you for coming on with me. And I would also love, maybe just rehash what we were just talking about in terms of like, what does it feel like for someone to come into your office and share these deep money thing?

Dennis McNamara 5:45

Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's interesting, because for somebody as a financial planner, that's staring at numbers all day, you know, looking at one person's account statement to the next. It doesn't immediately sometimes I kind of get a little desensitized, I guess, right, I'm looking at numbers, and I'm approaching it a lot of times from a quantitative standpoint. But there's so much more to unpack when I finally actually get to have that sit down with the person, you know, sitting on the same side of the table as them and looking at this stuff together. And just really taking that moment to pause and reflect on Holy cow, like I mean, I love the work I do. I love it for so many reasons. But the privilege that I get to kind of be in this person's life, in the role that I am on a topic as taboo as money occurred, you and I were just talking about this as a topic that people are more fearful of bringing up than then just about anything, it is like getting naked in front of the doctor sharing things that they probably have never shared with their their closest relatives or friends. So really, it's a privilege to do it.

Curt Storring 7:05

Yeah, and thank you for for sharing that. Because the reason that I want to have this conversation with you is one, it's generally public service for people to get a any sort of understanding of money, because I think most of us, like becoming fathers never received any education on this. And so to get the basics to understand some of the fundamental principles of money and wealth investing, and all that kind of stuff is fantastic. But also, this is a container. This is a topic that dads listening can use to go deeper, to do some of their inner work to become more vulnerable, like you were just saying, and we have actually run processes in our men's groups, where we share on money. And this is harder for some guys than talking about sex. No. So like if we go through your sex story and say, Okay, here's what I've done. Here's, you know who it's been with here. So I feel about it. Here's my story about sex. That's really hard for a lot of guys. And that's the beauty of the container of men's group that we can go there. And when we did the same thing for money, man, people were like, nope, would rather do this extra again. It's so so hard. Because there's shame involved. There's fear involved. There's unknowing, there's competition with the Joneses, basically. And like, where should we be. And so I think because of the culture, society, we live in, a lot of fathers default, to just being sort of the breadwinner, to being obsessed with the finances. And I wonder if you've seen that in the people that you work with, and what sort of balance is more ideal, we'll get into the sort of the fundamentals and stuff after that, but I know that we've got some sort of conversation have on balance, and using your sort of growth as a man and a father, and your financial sort of wherewithal to grow and to find balance. So what what do you have to say about sort of the balance of all of this?

Unknown Speaker 8:55

Yeah, I think I mean, a lot of us are showing up to this conversation with some, some form of money personality, right? We all have something and that's oftentimes not the same as our partner. You know, one might be a frugal penny pincher. The other one is a complete spendthrift. And I think you know, most often when men and women I actually require for I'll do an initial console, maybe it's the husband reached out or the wife reached out but for natural meeting, I require both spouses if there's two people in the relationship to be there in that conversation because they might think they're on the same page but so often, it's very clear that they're not and you know, they might be coming to me with the the spear in the back, right? I got this big tax bill, I might have this thing going on. And you that might be the reason why you're sitting there and having that conversation. That's what they paid for. That's the appointment that they're coming there for. But then you start scratching it that a little bit and you start to see the Money personalities, these different, you know, we all have our own conditioning and the baggage that comes with that and how we were raised how we were taught about money. And we have to, I have to, as a financial planner, meet these clients where they are and kind of treat it like a blank slate. And then take it from there. That's, that's step one is just understanding who you are, where you're coming from, and what are you trying to get out of even having a money conversation, because for so many of us, you know, we're talking about money as this thing that's just hanging out there. It's like, one bucket in our life, and we want to talk about money. But it is, it can be the sharpest tool in our toolkit to changing so many other areas in our lives if we were prudent, and how we managed it. So that's then what when I'm scratching and trying to understand who I'm working with who I'm speaking with, I'm trying to get to that, what do you want money to do for you? How does money fit into your life? And, you know, we can set the GPS to go 1000 different directions? Where are we heading?

Curt Storring 11:12

Okay, fantastic. I love that as a jumping off point, because the thing that I just made a note on is like money as a tool versus inherently having value in itself. That's sort of what I got out of what you said there, which is like, what do you want money to do for you? So can we touch on that a little bit? Like, how many people come to you? And they're just like, I just need more money? Like, what for? You know, like, yeah, what does that conversation look like? How can we start to maybe ask ourselves, like, what do we actually try to get out of this money? Because I think for, for me personally, it was validation, you know, like I was on this train for a long time, like, make money, make money, make money. And it was because I had my identity wrapped up in it. So like, what, how do we start to ask ourselves, what do we actually want to know money?

Unknown Speaker 11:54

Yeah, and I will say, on my, for me, that's one of the more difficult conversations for the person that doesn't have as much money as they want, because you're essentially trying to provide them a solution, that they're the only person that can solve it in some ways. They know their unique skills, their gifts, their experience, and how to apply that to the world. I think the one thing that I try to help with clients is shifting the conversation from one of scarcity to one of abundance. Where if you don't have everything you need, what are the things that you can do to get in closer to that? And that's not something that I'm always in the best position to answer, right. And, you know, not to go down another rabbit holes, but like, we hear, there's the gig economy, and there's all these different things, I don't think there's ever been a better time, maybe in modern history, to be an entrepreneur of some sort. But that in and of itself, is a really daunting thing for a lot of people. And so then if that's not something that somebody wants to entertain, it's how do you make the most of what you have to set up a plan to set up kind of automating your experience so that even if you don't necessarily make more, you can live an abundant life with what you have.

Curt Storring 13:14

Right. And there's a lot of gratitude that can come into this too. And one of the things that I have heard, I think it was Dan Sullivan, where I heard it most recently is focusing on the gain versus the gap. And so most people, especially entrepreneurs, but I think this is sort of a an everyone thing, we often focus on the gap between where we are and where we want to be. And that gap is filled with misery, longing and desire. Whereas if we were to focus on the gain, we would see where we have come from, and all of the achievement and all of the struggle that we have, you know, turned into meaning with the result of that struggle and just where we are now versus where we have been. So I like to try to remind myself to get on the game versus the gap, but it's hard. I mess. You know, I get in the gap all the time.

Unknown Speaker 13:58

But totally, totally. And I think, you know, Oliver Berkman is he's an author, he wrote, you might have heard of the book of the 4000 weeks time, I've

Curt Storring 14:08

been an all over mortal, I recommend it to like 100 people, same,

Unknown Speaker 14:11

same, so forth for 4000 weeks. For those that aren't aware that's that's approximately the average person's life expectancy. It's about 7076 years. And I think, you know, the, if he uses the example where a lifetime if measured as as a centenarian, somebody was living to 100 if we use that measure, the golden age of the Egyptian pharaohs was 35 lifetimes ago, Jesus was born 20 lifetimes ago, the Renaissance happen seven lifetimes ago. Henry the Eighth was around five lifetimes ago. And so if you were to take the number of lives you need in order to span all of civilization, we're at about 60. And so from This perspective, human history and our little, you know, I'm snapping my fingers here, our little blink of an existence. We're here for, you know, it's near nothingness in the scheme of things. And yes, for some of us that's terrifying. And perhaps some would think, a little nihilistic. I actually think, in Curt, this is getting to your point, I think it's a bit more consoling. Because the anxieties that are cluttering the average life, their relationship troubles, this, the status rivalries, the money worries, those shrink down essentially, to irrelevance, when we start kind of zooming out and thinking about where we are in terms of and his, his term that he coins is, cosmic insignificance. If we really write, boil it down, we're here for a blink, and we put a lot of weight on our shoulders financially being a big one. And we have to kind of, then it begs to ask the question, you know, what would it mean, to spend, the only time we ever get in a way that truly feels as though we're making account. And I think when we talk about finances, we can't lose sight of that, because life does move fast. And I've really appreciated what you've been sharing. And it's not a word that I ever was like, relating to what we're talking about here. But drifting is something that I've heard you mentioned a number of times, some of us just get into this, like funky autopilot. And the idea is like, stop caring about societal expectations, stop thinking that a meaningful life has to be like this big grandiose thing, just start with intentions. And that, and you mentioned the term of like, keeping up with the Joneses, right? That idea of this lifestyle creep that we're measuring against our neighbor, or relative or some artificial expectation that's out there. It's, it's just bullshit. And start with start with yourself, start with your intentions. And what it is that you are trying to get out of this, this, this little flicker of time that we have.

Curt Storring 17:10

Totally, yeah, I'm glad you brought that book up. And all of this is to say, because I'm just thinking, Okay, how is this relating to finance, and there's a lot of work here, it's almost like, you know, you got to go back, you got to go to therapy, unpack that last, like three minutes that we just talked about. And I understand it can be overwhelming. But there's so much in there to consider as it relates to finances, because often we just get blinded. And I'm just speaking personally, I'd love your thoughts on this, like, I go, like, maybe it's the classic thing, right? Like, maybe if I just make like this amount of money, then everything will just like feel better. And like, I won't have to worry about this, like a by this, like, I'll be able to get a little bit of help here. And like I am who I am, and I talk about this all the time, I got to be mindful, I got to be aware, I got to be present. Like I have to do all these things to keep me being the best man, partner and father that I can be. And like, well, I could probably be a better man, partner and father, if I had like, no extra a couple 100 grand every year. So like, why don't I just focus on that first? And so like, what do you what would you tell me? I guess, when it's like, Well, I kind of just want to work like just a little bit more. But I don't want to lose that balance. Like, how do I navigate? Like, how much is enough?

Unknown Speaker 18:22

Yeah, yeah. And I think, and I'll get to that point, what you're getting me to think about a quote, and I forget who says it, but it's, it's something along the lines of when you're young, you have time, you have health, but you have no money. When you're middle aged, you have money and you have health, but you have no time. When you're old, you have money, you have time, but you have no health. So the trifecta is trying to get all three at once. And that's, that's really where I try to start that this whole conversation, right? Because we can take the traditional definition of, quote, unquote, wealth. And what comes to mind if we think of a pie chart, it's our investments, it's our salary, our material possessions, our net worth, you name it, it's a shitty measure of success, because financial success is only one metric. I think what we really need to do is something that Wealth Advisors and we've got a funky spelling of wealth because what we're trying to do is is to redefine this. And that pie chart. Yeah, obviously, finances is one piece of the pie. But so is your health mentally, physically, emotionally, your social connections, your purpose, whether that's personally or professionally, the autonomy, the degree of it that you have in your life, your spirituality, the amount of rest you get, and to again, try to refocus the conversation to saying, okay, you know, if finances is the problem, let's think about how we can improve that. If finances in some form of a You know, it's okay. Or it's, you know, you've an abundance of finances, it's then trying to think about what other cups need to be filled, because financial success doesn't make a happy life.

Curt Storring 20:14

Yeah, the thing that came up to me right now is like, so we have car seat for the the two year old right now. And like these things are massive these days, they were clearly not so big when I was a kid. And like when my parents were kids, like didn't even have car seats. So I feel as though car seats today are like 300% safe, like, you could probably get most of the way there with like a third of the material. And you'd be pretty safe. And obviously, we're talking about our kids here. So you can never be too safe. But this, like, overwhelming amount of safety in the car seat goes like for me, let's say the car seat is 300% safe. There's all this abundance. And this is what I think I see in a lot of guys talking about money. If you have 300% of your financial goals met 300% abundance, in wealth. And in finances, it doesn't mean that it can make up for 0% in family or relationship or like just like you said, spirituality, all these things, it doesn't spill over to the other cups. And so unlike the car seat where we might want that extra because it's like our kids, we don't need this like overwhelming abundance of like finances necessarily. And I think this goes into, like, why you're doing it, what the values are behind that. So like, is this a question you ask the people who come in about values? Like what do you want this to do to you? For you? When is it enough? Because I'm just going like, I'm going to have moving goalposts throughout my life I'm sure. And like, what can I use right now to be like, Okay, I'm going to work for another like, couple hours every day this week, because I really need to push my business, or I need to be with the kids right now. Because like, I'm okay, I just personally have a hard time convincing myself that I'm okay. Because my mind goes from like, instead of like, the 10 years in the future, where I've got 10 years of work ahead of me and like I can do this, I bring it all back to tomorrow, and go like, Oh, no, everything's terrible unless I make money today. So like, yeah, totally like, Are there conversations or values? Or what? Like, how do you walk people through this kind of stuff?

Unknown Speaker 22:16

Yeah. So when I do get that opportunity to sit with somebody, and again, it's oftentimes starting with the spear in the back and putting out that fire. It's then transitioning the conversation to, you know, what is missing from your ideal lifestyle? Like, because it is that question of enough. And Jack Bogle, the founder of Vanguard fund company, wrote a book called enough and in it within I think it's within the first few pages, he tells this story, and I'm, like, really blanking out. But I think it's the author of The Catcher in the Rye, you might remember I don't is at a cocktail party at a big bankers home. And this it's like picture, you know, kind of like The Great Gatsby, like over the top excess wealth. And the one guy's saying to the author, Wow, can you believe this? I can't, I can't, this is just so amazing. And the author says, you know, I'll have something that this banker never will enough. And that's the idea. And we have to be able to kind of set those parameters around us. It's never life is not n plus one there is there are times where we can be content when all like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? Like, when we've got certain things, we've got a roof over our head, we've got our food for our family, but our kids are in receiving the education and the care that we would, could ever dream for them. All of these things are taking care, like, when do we stop and just say I don't necessarily need money is not going to be the thing that I need more of, to provide any type of, you know, additional satisfaction in my life, it's maybe some of these other parts of the pie. And for me, you know, when I'm sitting down with a client to try to get to these things, I actually, I have a goals and values inventory assessment that I like clients to do. And it's essentially, you know, it's about 80 different things and their lives where they can rank them in certain ways. And then, you know, I'm trying to think of an example here, like how important financial independence is for you and caring for your parents or caring for your children. And you start to weigh these things against each other and it kind of creates a list of priorities. So that's, that's one thing and that's strictly really more financial. But then there's, I have a separate exercise, which are three questions that I like to ask clients to really get these wheels turning for them. So the first one is, and maybe we can go through this together here. I won't I won't ask you to share everything and to put the heart honestly full but if you'd like, feel free, so the first the first thing that I like to ask and is I want you to imagine that you are financially secure, that you have enough enough money to take care of your needs, both now, and in the future. The question is, how would you live your life? What would you do with the money? Would you change anything, and the idea here is to let yourself go, don't hold back on your wildest dreams, describe a life that is truly complete, one that is richly yours, and now sit with this feeling of abundance, and this this hypothetical life that you're envisioning, having everything you could ever dream of. And then we move to the second question, and and we, we see sequentially, they don't know the next question. The next question is, you know, now, in this scenario, you visit your doctor who tells you that you have five to 10 years left to live. The good part is that you'll never feel sick. The bad news is that you'll have no notice of the moment of your death. What will you do in the time you have remaining to live? Will you change your life? How will you do it? So that question, you know, we can then pause gives this it kind of underlines again, what we were talking about and try and this is kind of unpacking the idea of that cosmic insignificance. Right? in a in a perfect, like having a sense of urgency, time is flying by, you've got five to 10 years left? How are you going to address the things that are most important to you in that window of time? And then that brings us to the third question. The third one is very similar to the second one, but this time, your doctor shocks you with the news that you only have one day left to live.

Unknown Speaker 26:57

Notice what feelings arise as you confront your very real mortality. Right? Ask yourself what dreams have been left unfulfilled? What do I wish I had finished? Or had had been as a as a man, as a father, as a partner, as a professional, you name it, what could I have done differently? And what did I miss? And that gives that sense of urgency, because a lot of times we are having these conversations, and we don't have a sense of urgency, which allows us to drift and to stick with something that is not working for us. And in turn, they're not working for the ones we love most because we play such a big role in their lives financially. Yes, but for so many other reasons. So I'll pause may say no, I do a lot out there. I'm curious, like, does any of that resonate? And is there anything that comes to mind for you, as we walk through something like that? And hearing, you know, financially, you feel like you check the box, but when thinking about your own mortality? What? What kind of feelings come over you?

Curt Storring 28:05

Yeah, this is so good. And like, the next question is going to be the ROI that comes with doing men's work, because you just went full men's work there. Like we talk about this kind of stuff all the time in men's group, like these are the kind of prompts that get people to go, oh, shit, what am I doing with my life, and I love them. So thank you for going there. These are excellent for people to work through. And I asked similar questions. And I do a similar process in my sort of year review. So I got this meditation from dominant core to CIO, who I've also talked to on this podcast about draft interesting sort of circle there. Basically, you envision yourself 10 years from now, and find your ideal life, your ideal self, how you best show up, and you get very clear on what that looks like. And so it's basically the if everything goes to plan, which means of course, I'm financially free and all the rest. So like this is very near and dear and close to the top of my head, because, man, I would have acreage along the water, I would have like animals that have a garden, I would spend almost all the time like trekking in nature and hiking and doing like survival stuff with my kids. I feel it'd be like neighbors. Yeah, dude. Yeah, of course, I'm actually the maybe the longer term game of this is like I would be the one building the community where everyone buys up, you know, the plots around each other. Oh, and we just communally, like enjoy life and nature and all the rest of it. So a lot of outside stuff. There'll be a lot of hosting men's retreats and just doing the work because I love it. And just like learning how to support my kids, as they sort of figure out what's important to them. So this is yeah, very top of mind because I am doing this work, which is like how much is enough? How am I going to get there? How long is acceptable to me? How much do I want to struggle to get there and like my my long game, my big, hairy audacious goal, if you will, is not really worth it. And I'm not sure yet. So these are super interesting questions and the the five to 10 year thing is Basically these things, but it starts to narrow it down into like the family portion of it, which is I, you know, I want to be there for my kids as they grow up, I want to be there teaching them and breathing life into them in a way that I didn't personally have, you know, I had people in my family who were sort of there, but not actively, they're not teaching me not holding me to a standard not holding me accountable, not challenging me want to do that with my kids, as they grow into their teenage years, and just continue to build up my my wife with a base so that, you know, if I'm dead five to 10 years, she carries on as best she can. And then the day to day stuff, man, that's like, that's the gut punch, because it's like, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 30:40

and I think you know, and just going to that point, then, about that ROI with men's work, because you're, and you know, this, but you're not alone, I'm not alone in the fact that we, a lot of us have to figure this stuff out ourselves. And I think, with a men's group, and you have you host a men's group, I'm part of a men's group, oftentimes there is a cost, there is a time commitment. There's financial and energy resources that are demanded for men to get the most out of these experiences. And I think the conversation does to me does need to be framed in a way that that is an investment, as much as any other investment that a man can make, financially or otherwise. And ROI return on investment is not always going to be measured by financial success. Men's work is not measured, I don't think, quantitatively I'm sure there, there would be some researcher somewhere that would try to quantify, you know, inputs and outputs, I don't think it's a worthwhile endeavor, where it when the the intention and the idea of it or sorry, the idea is shifting from drifting to living with intention, having deeper, more engaged relationships with those closest to you gaining a deeper understanding of yourself, why you are the way you are. And I think it's through those types of improvements, that type of reflection, that the ROI, the output is really becoming a better father becoming a better husband. And I do think that it eventually does bridge that gap into the quantitative, because becoming a better person is not limited to becoming a better father, a better partner, the downstream impact is what and I just think about myself having really worked on myself, to be more confident, to live with more intention to be more compassionate, to be a secure man, the downstream impact is to be a better professional in whatever capacity that may be, and to create that abundance mindset, so that you can even perceive what opportunities because if we're living in that scarcity, insecure mindset, we've got blinders on where we're living in that fearful kind of a state, from a business sense, from a business stance from a parenting stance, these are not good places to be. And so I think that's where the ROI is, again, hard to quantify. And it's going to be unique to each of us, but a totally worthwhile investment.

Curt Storring 33:30

Very well said, I couldn't have said it better myself. And it's so true, you have to almost release the expectation to benefit in a quantitative way to get those quantitative results down the path. You know, it's like you have to surrender to get what you want most. And yeah, if you become a better man in men's group, and like you said, the confidence and stuff like that, but for me, even it was like, going through a really hard time a couple years ago, or about a year ago. Now, when I was trying to launch this new business, it was totally misaligned. And I was really suffering. And my instinct was just like, keep going, like, you can deal with pain, like, that's the best, that's the thing you're best at, like, don't quit. And it was just like, Oh, what is going on here. And I was just constantly kept in check in men's group to like trust my intuition to be there for myself to support myself not to hurt myself. And when it came down to crunch time, I had all these guys to call in onto and who were like, dude, this doesn't sound like it's good for you. And I use those relationships to pull the plug. And I could never have done that without a men's group because my fear of failure was so high. And I knew somewhere deep inside me that these men's group guys didn't care if I you know, made my million dollar business by next year. They didn't care if I failed at this. They weren't even thinking about me beyond wanting to support me and care for me. And so that supportive container allowed me for the first time in my life. What are you You're ago now to really fail. And you really get everything that comes from failure, which to me was extremely intense learning and growth. And so yeah, there's so many, I could just spend the next half hour talking about all the things you get from men's work and men's group. But even just becoming a better man to make those better choices, like I've experienced it to become more confident, like you've experienced to get out there and take that what you know, is right for you, and serve people in the way that's gonna get you potentially the financial results in the future.

Unknown Speaker 35:30

Yeah, yeah. And I think about in a similar timeline as you so I launched Wealth Advisors in September 2019. And that was about five months before the world shutdown. I took the leap, I have a three year old, who at the time was had just turned not had not even yet turned one had put my neck out on the line in a way that I was scared shitless and had never done before. And I launched the business with a certain idea, my wife is a dentist. So I was like, wow, there's such a need, I need to target these medical professionals. They're so underserved, my type of an offering works so well. And really once like COVID got going like social isolation. As an as an isolated extrovert, like I was floundering, absolutely floundering, I completely lost touch matter of fact, with with many of my closest friends, and some of that also during that time was I felt really discomfort, a strong sense of discomfort, and the, like, even stupid things in some of us don't think it's stupid, but like, the political discourse at the time, in here in the US, like, we there were, there was Red Team Blue Team, a world shutdown in a pandemic, I just felt like my world was so small, and I didn't have anybody to be an outlet at for from a business standpoint, or from a personal standpoint, when I kind of needed it most. And, you know, I try during that time, I was like doing webinars and different things, and I was getting no traction. And, again, felt myself floundering. And that's when you started having, I hadn't formally joined a men's group at that point, but really just tried to take a temperature check of myself and was some of the stoic philosophy, right, like, you can't fret about the things that are beyond your control, you can only really prioritize and focus those that are within. And for me, it was like, okay, like, you know, the body keeps score I hear. So like, let me start working out, like, let me do this stuff. And so I had never worked out at home before I just started to work out and my wife and a cousin of mine were like, you know, you need to treat exercise as like your prescription, like, you know that that's something that benefits you in so many ways. You've talked about it, and you just need to, you need to get on that. I also kind of forced a little bit of, you know, introspection it with my relationship with alcohol, like I'm isolated, I'm bored. What am I doing? And how does alcohol fit into it? I'm coming from a family with a lot of history of addiction and dependency, like I could feel that within me. And so it was recognizing that and kind of creating some distance from from that substance, like getting good night's sleep. And then it was it was like once I joined this men's group, I felt like it was like a new chapter opened up, because I realized not everybody's thinking about politics, not everybody's like curling up into a ball, and just suffering. We can get out and we could talk about real shit that matters. And that's how that that it literally was like this aha moment where I'm like, okay, yeah, I started this business trying to work with medical professionals. But I don't really care about that, like that. That wasn't anything personal to me. I couldn't relate to it, any of that. And I all sudden shifted to this much more like an abundance mindset, what we're talking about. And I realized, wow, like, being the person that just kind of checks in with friends and says, How are you doing? No, like, really? How are you doing? was powerful. And I was blown away because I would get together with groups of friends and everybody wanted to talk football or, you know, sports and all this stuff. And I like had kind of tuned a lot of that stuff out and was just calling like, how are you doing? Like, how are you sleeping these days? Like, what are you talking about?

Unknown Speaker 39:33

Like, how are you like, what, what are you doing? Like, I've been living in a house with my family. Luckily, intergenerational, like, a multi generational family. My parents are there. My son, my wife. I had more support than most people. I've got friends that live by themselves. I'm like, What's life look like for you? What are you doing? And I realized that having these conversations about the mental the physical moment motional health, things like that. I think men are much more and some will put up walls. Sure, like we all have the friend or the acquaintance that just like, isn't gonna go there. But I actually found like, being the stimulus being the one that brought it up. It then was reciprocated. And it allowed me as that floundering, extrovert that was completely isolated, wasn't talking about any of this stuff, to have conversations, mutual conversations, not just you know, alright, you're doing good. Alright, let me tell you about myself. It was actually like genuine conversations where I'm hearing about the struggle, like, yeah, we got, I got to hear about the score of the game. Alright, now let's talk about this. And we really started peeling the onion back and it just for me, then, like, I complete, I shifted my entire business because of this, like, I focused on redefining wealth based around this idea, because I've just like this superficial, just financial top line, nonsense, like the bullshit kind of stuff gets so much attention. And I'm not trying to minimize the role of it, but the conversation is broader. And I think we just, we need to as sick once we reach that place of security, as a man, like, this is something we should lean into with with the other men that are in our lives and closest to us, because I think it's, um, it's personally rewarding as well.

Curt Storring 41:23

Yeah, dude, that was so good. And I appreciate you sharing all that is very personal look into just what this can look like. And I heard from David Stegman, a guest on this podcast, who said that most men are dying, to talk about this kind of stuff, and to go deeper, and most men never get the invitation. And so it sounds like you were the one giving the invitation and allowing these conversations to happen. And I love that I love that this is happening in the world, I love that you were able to find that within yourself to meet your needs. And then like look at the impact it's had. It's absolutely phenomenal. And so I just want to drop in real quick here. For anybody who wants a men's group for dads, you can join us at Obviously, it's not for everyone. As Dennis said, there's a sort of a financial and time cost to it. But this is the kind of stuff that we do. And we'd love to join, we'd love to have you join us there. Alright, so Dennis, I want to make sure we get to the sort of fundamentals because this has been so good on terms of getting like our heads wrapped around this. And I think that like guys can just take this first 40 minutes and like do their own work. And really journal on this, really maybe ask a couple of guys to come in, sit down, like have a beer, go through these questions with one another and hold each other accountable. Like what do you want out of your life? What if you did have everything? What is your like, one day? What how would you spend that day? Get through that practice, get through the process. Okay, Dennis, I want to make sure we get to the fundamentals of finance, because I know that we could spend well guys listening to this could spend hours doing the work that you have outlined at the beginning of this to get clear on what they want their life to look like get clear on what their life would look like if they were financially free and how they'd spend it. There's a lot of things guys can do, even with a couple buddies extend like you did to do the processes you gave us. But like none of us learn the fundamentals unless we had like a financial advisor or financial planners, a father or mother something like that. So like, what are the fundamentals of finance? And that's so hard to just like ask you, because I don't know, you could start literally anywhere. But some of the things we have talked about are things like paying yourself first emergency funds, having sufficient liquidity, the difference between different types of debt, good, bad, acceptable. homeownership, human capital kids education planning, investing in yourself, which is partially men's group partially training, I'm sure. So like, where would you go from here? How would you teach, like an intro level 101 basic fundamentals of finance, to basically a group of men who are just like, I know what I'm doing, but maybe it's not working for me. How do I go from where do I go to grow from here?

Unknown Speaker 44:04

Yeah, so not to be like too salesy here, right. But Wealth Advisors, our little slogan is to be financially fit for life. And so the five fundamentals of fiscal fitness are and you outline them. So let's talk about them. Let's, let's dig into that. paying yourself first. And we can say that but what does that really mean? That is your pre tax income saving anywhere from 10 to 20%. I think for most people, the sweet spots, probably in the middle about 15% If you're somebody who's starting late to the game, shoo for 20% But you're saving 10 to 20% of your annual income. Now, this the idea is that you are beginning with an emergency fund. So an emergency fund that gets into point number two having sufficient liquidity and emergency fund is having anywhere from three as little as three to 12 months of living expenses, set aside, safe, secure, and accessible. And, you know, so many people that I that I meet with, they'll come in, they'll show me their statements and whatever it might be, and they don't have an emergency fund. And I will pause the conversation right there. And I said, this is truly the pillar that everything else gets built on. And if you're a dual earning household, husband and wife, I'm okay with that lower end in terms of that liquidity number for emergency. So three months in that example, right, because if something happens to, to you, the husband, well, you've got your wife to continue earning, she's got her job. And you know, things aren't going to go upside down. For somebody that's maybe self employed, or somebody who's further down the line and is financially independent or retired, that number is going to be more like 12 months. And why is an emergency fund so important? Well, if you don't have that in place, and if life throws the inevitable curveballs at you that it will, you're not going to be prepared for it. And that's going to require you to, I don't know, take money out of your house, or take money out of your invested assets, which are really earmarked for longer term, or God forbid, taking on really shitty high interest debt in the form of oftentimes credit card debt, where that's going to be a hole you'll then be digging out of for some time. So the emergency fund is the pillar of everything else, that's three, ideally, three to six, upwards of 12 months of your monthly living expenses, set aside, safe, secure and accessible.

Curt Storring 46:41

And can I just jump in here real totally, this is so fundamental as well for the mental game. Because if you see what it would look like, if you feel what it would look like to be put out, beyond what you can even imagine you lose your job, or you have a huge expense or something happens to your house, whatever it is, if you know that a huge or even a moderate pain in your life could really ruined things for you, then, like it's just personally speaking, so stressful. And it can make each decision you make feel existential. And what I mean by that, for example, just as I build businesses and have over the last 10 years, when things were new, everything had to work. Because I bet on myself, I was young when I started. And so like I didn't have any of this. And it was so hard to make the right decision, because I was like, Oh, if this doesn't work, I have to get a job. I don't want to get a job, I don't have any money. Oh, my goodness. And having this base level of protection frees you from the mental weight of like something going wrong. And so I just want to add that as like a reason to go deep here. And I know you said like it's fundamental, but even mentally and like in your mental health as a dad, it's one less thing you have to worry about. So yeah, just tripling down on your statement that it's fundamental, would completely agree pardon me for interrupting but

Unknown Speaker 48:05

no, no, I mean, what is resiliency mean to you, right, as a as a, as a breadwinner, or not a breadwinner, just as to be part of a household, where you know, financially, that you have peace of mind, whatever life might throw at you, that is worth a ton. And I think it goes back to again, tying everything together here. Shifting from that scarcity mindset to that abundance mindset, when you know that your life if you lost your job tomorrow, or if you got disabled or whatever it might be that you are financially in a good place to get through the storm. That's worth that's worth a lot. And it's going to also, you know, and getting it shifting into the conversation, right, that difference of the good bed and acceptable debt. It's keeping you away from that bad debt, which can completely erode people's financial lives, credit cards, payday loans, all this garbage stuff that becomes the hole that you're climbing out of oftentimes for years. But let's not discount the fact that there's also acceptable debt and what comes to mind for me, in a in the land of high cost education here in the lower 48. And really the United States at large, our student loans, and I'd say about 70% of the people I work with probably under the age of 40 are coming in with mountains of student loan debt, honestly. And personally. It's one of those things like I couldn't address it at the time. I couldn't provide any guidance. I couldn't sway you on the degree you pursued or whatever it might be. But I do in many ways, look at it as acceptable debt. And I don't think people should feel terrible about that. I think culturally, so many of us were given this linear track of going from high school to our undergraduate we might have not had any idea what we were doing and now we're coming carrying around the ball and chain, which is our student debt, well, you know what it is like, again, we can only we can get stressed out about that we can let that bog us down mentally and everything was within our control, and it's taking care of it. And there are advisors out there that do specifically consults on student loans so that you can make sure you're in the best plan for you. But then there's also what I would consider to be good debt. And Curt, like, as a business owner, I don't know if any of the businesses you started, you ever had to finance in any way as as like I bootstrapped Wealth Advisors with my lifeboat that I had saved up on the side. But so like a business loan, for some people where that this is a loan that isn't just it's not like financing a car, right, which is just like this, like use asset, and I even hesitate to call a car an asset, because it's just a depreciating item. But something that can potentially appreciate any debt that is taken out that can, where the asset, the collateral, that's there has the ability to appreciate. And the most common one for most people listening, whether they're homeowner or not, is going to be their home. And the idea that you can take out a mortgage and put down maybe 20%, on a home, and you're buying this home, that's an appreciating or historically appreciating asset, depending on different markets and stuff, we also need a place to live. So like, the idea is that you're getting a home within your means. But you shouldn't feel bad about the mortgage, especially if you're listening in 2022. And globally, that interest rates for things like mortgages are at historic lows, there's probably you shouldn't buy a home just to lock in a low a low rate. That's not the right approach. But you shouldn't feel bad about the debt hanging over you either. And quite honestly, for the people that have a 30 year mortgage, at under 3%. I'm saying you better not pay more than your monthly bill, a penny more than your monthly bill because we we want this to be in place. So you have a place to live. And we can use everything over and above that to think about future. You.

Curt Storring 52:05

Let's just can you go there for a second? Because this is one of those things that I don't think enough people realize, because it was almost like a shock to me, because I was like, Oh, you just pay down that mortgage right away? Why would you want to have that debt. But the opportunity cost of paying down that mortgage is that you no longer have the money that you paid down this super low rate mortgage to make the higher returns in something like you know, the stock market or whatever. So if you're paying 3%, keep paying the 3% because the money you don't pay into that mortgage could be making seven to 10% in the market, for example. And that delta between the three and the seven to 10% Is what you're making up. So it's much better financially to actually have the money to invest in work for you. Rather than paying off this quite stable like you say, appreciating asset is that correct?

Unknown Speaker 52:50

I couldn't have said it better. Curt, I couldn't have said it better. And I think the way to think about it and in the in the US right in the US tax code. That rate, and let's just say was 3%, the mortgage interest rate is effectively actually lower, because you get to write off your mortgage interests. So that rate is effectively lower than the stated rate on your mortgage statement because of that. Now, if you are the most conservative of investors, the way that I would think about it is if you're the person that's making that extra mortgage payment, let's just say you've got a $1,500 mortgage, but you're paying three grand because you want that mortgage done with the way to think about it is there's a baked in guaranteed return on every dollar additional that you pay towards that mortgage, it's 3%. It's the rate of the mortgage, you're getting a guaranteed return assuming your your home holds its value, and they're not building some uranium mine in your backyard or something that's going to completely derail its value, but you're locking in that rate that is your rate of return. But to your point, Curt, historically, if we go back to the Great Depression era, up to now the past 100 years, if you've got 10 plus years, the opportunity cost is much higher, to redirect that extra mortgage payment to a higher performing asset class. And oftentimes, that's going to be a diversified basket of like a mutual fund where you're essentially buying the global economy and you're just being rationally optimistic that between the time you invest it and the time that you need this money further down the road, that money will grow at a rate faster than 3%. It will be a bumpier ride, but you're accepting that volatility up front. And that that kind of comes with it. But if you are the conservative investor, and having a home paid off and no mortgage over your head is what's going to help you sleep at night. I'm never going to dissuade the person if that's the thing, you know that that is going to give them that peace of mind. But opportunity cost is a point of education that we have to have with so many clients.

Curt Storring 54:56

Excellent. Okay. What are the other points you mentioned? Paying your So first, the sufficient liquidity, and we talked about debt there. What are the other points?

Unknown Speaker 55:06

Yeah, so number number four on the five fundamentals is buying a home within your means. So on this same topic, so for most middle income folks, and this is honestly I will To be fair, this is geographic dependent, because I, you know, New York City is my metro area, BC is not a cheap place to live. But the goal, in general, like one of these very rudimentary rule of thumbs, is to buy a home, that's two to two and a half times your annual income, that's kind of a target for some people. And again, depending on the market, that could be 3x. That could be three and a half. You really though, if you can get something between two and two and a half times your annual household income, that typically translates well to having a monthly payment on that mortgage, that's very manageable. And then the last point, and you touched on it briefly, there is yet invest in yourself, you are your best asset, your skills, your experience, your talent, your ability to earn is the highest ROI thing that you can do. The stock market, yeah, traditionally can get 8% Well, you know, what, you improving yourself, are capable of having multiples higher of that. And, and I always think about it, like, you know if and I've used this example before, but like, if we all had a golden goose like literally a pet golden goose that gave us a golden egg, every damn day. So long as we made sure that goose was mentally physically and emotionally stable. We would take damn care of that golden goose, we wouldn't burn that golden goose out, we wouldn't, you know, put it to its wisss at wit's end stressing it out, we would take good care. And I think that's what we're doing. And any investment in yourself in your ability to earn is I'm always in favor of, and I can't minimize that at all. That is a huge one. But I do think that there's something in this whole conversation being that this is a Dad.Work podcast, right, where oftentimes also thinking about our children, and how they fit into the mix here, because these are just some rules of thumb just about finances. But in general, when we're thinking about our lives, the future of our lives, and then our children, the guidance that I give is the same guidance that you hear when you get on the airplane. And that's put your own oxygen mask on first, have that emergency fund buttoned up, be and we didn't, I didn't talk about insurance, but be properly insured, if something was to happen to you. And we're talking about, you know, the emergency fund, yeah, that was you, maybe something got derailed. But if you pass away to have some amount of Term life insurance, that would be able to support and give your children the lives that you now no longer being in the picture can provide them to provide your wife with the support financially that she needs, because you're not there. Also things like disability insurance, there's a lot of employers that provide some amount of disability insurance, the rule of thumb is typically aiming for and it's oftentimes the maximum but 60% of your pre tax income to have a disability policy. Because disability is claimed on four times as often as life insurance, you're much more likely to get disabled and to claim on a policy. And it's then looking at investing, you know, paying yourself first. For the end, this is more of a long term idea, right? Where you're looking out, years ahead future you living with that community that you described, where you're putting that, you know, 10 to 20% away, and you're saving for the long term, it's only then that I even want to bring up saving for children. Education Planning in the US, we have things like 520, nines, UDMA brokerage accounts. And oftentimes, this is another point of conversation that I have to have, if there's, you know, a husband and wife in this conversation. What does that even look like? Like? What do you want to provide? Do you want to cover the cost of a private school for primary elementary for high school?

Unknown Speaker 59:29

Do you want to, you know, help with university funding in any way. And husband and husbands and wives, they think they're on the same page with these things a lot of times but they have oftentimes wildly different ideas about what they want to be able to provide their children and it's and it's then you know, looking at those things, once that kind of education conversation is taken care of. Then you can start and and I try to just get people to think about like the essentials I prioritize. These are the things we want to talk about. It's then talking about digital missionary things, the lifestyle upgrades the my preference, maybe like unique experiences that you can share as a family, that that's what that that's education. That's something that the family is going to remember. That's what really matters. That's why so many of us do what we do to have those experiences. So trying to prioritize the discussion, and recognizing that these answers are going to be different for for everybody.

Curt Storring 1:00:24

Yes, that's fantastic sort of breakdown in terms of just get the it's almost like, again, the hierarchy of needs, right. It's like Sally, and then you know, emergency and relationship, and then kids, and then sort of fun at the top. So that is so important, because I think it's so bizarre, right? Like, it should be so obvious. And yet people typically, like my wife heard someone at the hairdresser's years ago, who is like, Yeah, I'm going to Paris on this holiday. And no, I got to rack up the credit card, get debt for it, but you shouldn't let money get in the way of things you want to do, yo. And it just seems so nonsensical. And this is a reality for a lot of people. And so I don't think this can be sort of iterated enough, just how important it is. And if you're triggered by this kind of conversation, if you've got through this, and you're like, yep, never doing anything that I said, then like, really consider, what is it because this money, like we said, at the start of this conversation, can be so triggering, and yet transformative if you're willing to be vulnerable with it. So talk to a financial planner, like Dennis who gets it, who has that sort of general men's work background, who's not going to just be talking about the numbers, join a men's group and talk about it, they're like, find some guy friends extend like Dennis did, and have these conversations. Because when you unlock money, the fear and the guilt and the shame beyond money, I feel like just personally, I'm still working on this to be quite honest. It's really lightening my burden as a dad, as a husband as just like a dude. To not be so like, enslaved by it to be, to be honest. It feels like so this is my just invitation anyone listening to like, do this work? Like, talk to me talk to Dennis, whatever, I'm steeped in it myself. Dennis has to so like, go there? What What have we missed? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:02:11

I was gonna say it, it was on this that last point that you just brought up. And I'd be remiss not to share in for those that are looking for a financial planner, somebody that can be in their corner to help them make these good decisions. Bill Bernstein is the author of the the intelligent asset allocator had a fantastic quote. And it was if you assume that every financial professional you interact with is a hardened criminal, you'll do okay. And so I did just want to leave a couple little, little items here. For those that may feel whether you know, maybe men's group is not where they're having these discussions, or they want to hire a professional, what to look for, in those professionals, just some very top line items here, the one would be that they clearly communicate that they are a fiduciary. A fiduciary, by definition, is an advisor that is obligated, obligated to always place your interests ahead of their own. Now in the US, there's actually there's law around retirement plans where advisors no matter what color advisor you are, what what type of brokerage house BD registered investment advisory firm, you might be a part of in a retirement account, you need to place the client's interest first. So some clients will ask that advisor, are you a fiduciary? Yeah, and your retirement account, I will never lead you astray, you know, because they're required by law in that account, but in a whole other world, their finances, they can sell them a bunch of bullshit. So that's one thing to know a fiduciary and I should be able to put that in writing. If you ask for it in writing that you will act as a fiduciary always putting my interests ahead of your own, that should be something that they would even sign. The other thing would be the CFP, the Certified Financial Planner credential that in for financial planning is considered to be the gold standard. It has the the most coursework requirements, it's got a board administrator administered exam. I failed it the first time, it's not easy. So those are people that you know, they've passed a certain degree from a technical standpoint, a competent competency test of sorts. And then the last one would be fee only. Now this gets into like, it sounds like semantics here because there are a lot of advisors that will say they're fee based. Oh, yeah, I'm fee based. No, no fee, only. That means that they're compensated directly by the client. There's no Commission's no kickbacks for anything they recommend, which is common in the insurance industry. Oh, by this whole life policy, I get a big payday because you did. It's kind of like you know, the difference of working with like a fee only advisor and a non fee only advisor it's almost like it's like going to the butcher and asking what's for dinner. Right? The butcher is going to say meat 10 times out of 10 where you want A fee only fiduciary, who's going to serve you more like a nutritionist. What do you need? What are your goals? What are your options to getting there, and the only way that they're going to be compensated is the check that you're cutting them. That, you know, there's some people that prefer, oh, my advisor takes 1%, or they I bought this insurance policy, he gave me all this advice. You don't want to have what you pay, be in his black box unclear to you that's just being given, cut a check to somebody pay for good advice. You get what you pay for. And there's a couple areas that I would just direct your listeners to there's NAPFA and a Where there's those are people advisors that hold themselves out as fiduciaries. There's also the alliance of comprehensive planners, I'm a member of that, that's a see And then the last one that I would just mention, is the XY network. That's for somebody you know, for. And I think about the folks that are trying to straighten the ship and trying to get things in order. That's a monthly subscription plan, where you can hire somebody for like a gym membership, and they can help you get things set up. So I think those are great areas to look, if you feel like you need somebody in your corner.

Curt Storring 1:06:16

Hmm, those are fantastic, man, thank you for recommending those. And the that reminds me like my my previous life as a affiliate marketer or an SEO you know, internet marketing. It's like, I cannot trust anything I read on Google Now. Because when I go to a website, and I know they're pitching me a product, it's typically because the number one thing on their list gives them the biggest payout. And I just know this from my time and and and so it sounds exactly the same, which is you want to go with someone who has nothing to gain from your choice. Rather than, you know, if you pick this one, I get the biggest payout. So of course, I'm going to rank number one.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:53

Exactly, you want them to be giving the same if you were their brother, right their cousin there, you want to get and that's the luxury that I have when I'm just getting a check to tell you what's best for you. My skin in the game is rooting for your success in for this advice to work for you. And to not be beholden to conflicts of interests, whether those are apparent or not to you. But to just just give you the advice that you're paying for.

Curt Storring 1:07:20

Hmm, yeah. Excellent way to leave it off. Okay. Well, this is almost feel like there's probably going to need to be a second one of these at some point, as I like, organize my thoughts around finances and how to like bring it all together. Because yeah, there's just so much here. But you just gave some excellent resources for people. I would also like you to give your links and where people can find you. Because I have felt really good getting to know you. I feel like you're a straight shooter and also have done the work. And I feel good being able to do this and I do it for everyone, but sometimes it's okay, where can people find you and I just genuinely feel good about having you share because I wish that I had someone like you to talk about this stuff as I was figuring it out along the way. So anyway, where can people find you if they want to get in touch?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:05

Yeah, totally. So um, my Instagram is where i It's my little soapbox of speaking and rambling about a lot of this stuff and beyond. My Instagram is at the wealth advisor but do know it's wealth spelled WEALTHThe Wealth Advisor. You can also find me in the work that I do with Wealth Advisors at WEALTHFA.COM as in Frank is an Anthony .COM where you can also subscribe to my newsletter where it's as much about finances as it is about wellness and personal optimization and really just taking the meaningful steps to upgrading your life.

Curt Storring 1:08:46

Hmm, amazing. Okay, Dennis, well, thank you so much for your wisdom and your insights and giving us so many processes which I'm just so pumped about, by the way, so yeah, man, I really appreciate this and we'll have to get in touch soon. Cheers, man.

Dennis McNamara 1:08:59

I appreciate the opportunity

Curt Storring 1:09:07

that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. It means the world to find out more about everything that we talked about in the episode today, including Show Notes resources and links to subscribe leave a review work with us go to That's DAD.WORK/POD type that into your browser just like a normal URL, You'll find everything there. You need to become a better man, a better partner and a better father. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next

Dennis McNamara 1:09:38


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