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Today’s guest is Dr. Jeremy Goldberg.

We go deep talking about:

  • Why it’s important to build self love and give meaning to your life
  • Why it’s vital for our kids to feel safe with us as their parents instead of shaming them
  • How and why to commit to doing the work in yourself to show up better in your family
  • How you can learn and practice the virtues of joy, kindness, compassion, and thankfulness in your life
  • Why it is critical to facilitate and foster physical, emotional, and spiritual safety for your family, children, and partner
  • Why it’s critical to teach your children that they don’t have to be perfect in order for you to love them as a father

I’m a recovering scientist turned life coach who speaks fluent burrito.  I own a van and a man bun and in my spare time, I collect silver linings.  People pay me to make them cry.

I worked internationally for governments and universities for over a decade, am an expert in human behavior, and spent five years studying how our brains influence our actions and wrote a Ph.D. thesis about it.  I’ve managed teams of people and millions of dollars.

In addition to my academic background, I’ve trained myself through countless scientific studies and books related to self-help, self-care, self-growth, and self-doubt.  I have an honorary doctorate from the School of Hard Knocks.  I’ve met rock bottom, planted a seed, grew a haunted house into a home, and climbed out of the hole my mind made.  Now I help others do the same.

My name is Dr. Jeremy Goldberg, I founded Long Distance Love Bombs, and my mission is to make kindness cool, empathy popular, and compassion commonplace.  I want to make the world better than it was yesterday.  As part of that purpose, I write articles, send emails, host retreats and workshops, coach clients, have a podcast, write books, and make spoken word poetry videos.  I am also active on Facebook and Instagram, leading an online tribe of more than 60,000 badass humans.

Mentioned on this episode:

  1. Get Shit Done 101
  2. The Do Hard Shit Program

Curt Storring 0:00

Welcome to the Dad Work Podcast. My name is Curt Storring, your host and the founder of Dad Work. This is episode number 94, Joy and Kindness As A Culmination of Doing Deep Work with my guest, Dr. Jeremy Goldberg. We go deep today talking about why it's important to build self love and give meaning to your own life. Why it's vital for our kids to feel safe with us as their parents instead of shaming them, how and why to commit to doing the work in yourself to show up better in your family, how you can learn and practice the virtues of joy, kindness, compassion and thankfulness in your life. Why it's critical to facilitate and foster physical, emotional and spiritual safety for your family, your children and your partner, and why it's critical to teach your children that they don't have to be perfect in order for you to love them. As a father, Dr. Jeremy Goldberg is the founder of long distance love bombs. And his mission is to make kindness cool, empathy, popular and compassion commonplace. He wants to make the world better than it was yesterday. As part of that purpose. He writes articles, sends emails, hosts retreats, and workshops, coaches clients as a podcast writes books, and make spoken word poetry videos. He's also active on Facebook and Instagram, leading an online tribe of more than 60,000 badass humans. And if you want to get links to any of that and hear more about Dr. Jeremy Goldberg and his biography, you can go and check that out on the Dad.Work podcast resource page, which is Dad.Work slash podcast. And you'll find this episode number 94. You can check out all the links and find Jeremy everywhere that I just mentioned, guys, this is one of two upcoming podcasts that talks about joy and being playful. These are things that are often missed in this deep work of going inward, finding our wounds and our shadows, talking about trauma and all these types of things. But what are we doing it for? What is the positive version of this on the other side, it's not just not being miserable. It's being joyful. It's being kind. It's being playful. And it's bringing all these things to our family as the leader of the family, as a father. And so I'm excited today to go deep talking about joy and kindness and compassion and empathy. And then in a couple weeks from now, we're going to be talking about play, and how to be playful and how to actually play with our kids to give that, like I said, this positive interaction, not just the lack of negative interaction. And this is a vital point for debt. This is a piece that I struggled with personally for a long time where I went from angry and miserable to sort of neutral. And I was like, well, this doesn't seem very fulfilling what's next. And it's taken me time, I'm continuing on my own journey of finding joy and finding happiness and finding play. And conversations like this are where we begin and where we start doing the work to fill in the gaps that are left when we heal the wounds and the shadows. So I hope you love this conversation and the upcoming one, which we'll see in a few weeks. I think it's episode number 97. So that'll be three weeks from now. And guys, we're gonna get into this, like I said, if you want to hear more about Jeremy, go to Dad.Work slash podcast and you can learn more, and find all the links there. And if you don't already follow me on Instagram, you can find me at dad work dot Kurt on Instagram. And if you've been getting any value out of the show, and you've listened for a while it can I ask you to leave a quick review on Apple. You can also leave a rating on Spotify if you listen there. But I know a lot of you guys listen on Apple just takes 30 seconds takes five seconds to leave a rating. It takes about 30 seconds to leave a review, say some that is real for you. Good, bad, indifferent, whatever. leave a review, let me know what you think. And that actually helps get this into the ears of more dads who need it just like you if you're listening. Thank you guys for being along the journey. We're gonna get into this episode now with Dr. Jeremy Goldberg.

All right, dads, I am here today with Dr. Jeremy Goldberg, who I have seen all over the place, which is why I wanted to have him on because I was just saying before we got on here that unlike a lot of guys that I hear speak about kindness and positivity. He doesn't piss me off. And there's something about the way that he brings this that I was like, Man, I gotta have this, this guy on and he I know does a lot of work with another person than I had in the podcast Traver bomb, which a lot of you guys love that episode? So I think you're gonna love this as well. And man, first of all, could you please tell us what the heck long distance love bomb is? I just want to get that out of the way. Because I'm constantly like, there must be a history here. What the hell is it? Can we go there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, man. And, and thank you for having me stoked to be here. honored that I don't annoy you and appreciate that. You've seen me everywhere, like a rash on the internet. So that's, that's great. But long distance love arms is essentially the name of my business, the name of my brand. It started many years ago, when I was writing on the internet. And I started a blog and I wrote a book and was doing all of these things, but realized that I needed like a business name and I was too scared. And I lacked the confidence to just be Jeremy Goldberg on the internet. Plus, there is some famous photographer in New York named Jeremy Goldberg, and he had basically cornered

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 5:00

In the market on, and Jeremy Goldberg on Instagram. And so I went this other way. And the phrase originated in an online chat that I was having on Gmail back in the day with an ex girlfriend of mine. And we were just catching up typing back and forth. And then at some point, she said, Okay, I gotta go now. Take care, I love you. And I said, What will Whoa, watch the long distance loved ones. And then I saw it written out in the chat. And I was like, that's a cool phrase. I like that it's got a little bit of alliteration. It's kind of weird, it's thought provoking. And I just like yoink took it from the chat and decided that was going to be my brand. And that was well aligned, and it fit. And essentially, the brand is about making kindness school and compassion commonplace. So I'm trying to make the world better than yesterday. A joke that I'm a compassion cultivating day making change agent and empathy collecting anti quitting Word Wizard, a ferocious never give her upper collector of silver linings. And so my jam is about trying to help people get where they want to go by becoming the person that they want to be deep down. And so I work with individuals groups on the internet, I teach workshops and retreats, and I joke that I've got the whole personal development starter pack like I've got a nose ring, and I've got some scruff on my face and bit of a long hair. I used to live in a van for a minute, vegetarian, I'm essentially the guy that I used to make fun of, I've like become that person. Totally. So yeah, this flow, bro a. That's it. Amazing. Now, there's some real groundedness to it, though. And I say that in jest, because I think John Weinland once said, like, on the other side of the extreme sort of masculine is the conscious flow, bro, who's just like, you know, waffling around, and yet, you got all these things. It's funny. And, like, I just want to be sure that, you know, people aren't thinking that you're just sort of waving off in the distance here. Because, like the work you do, and the things you put together, the courses you've got, like, you've got courses, which surprised the hell out of me, which called getting shit done, I think and how to do hardship with Traver. Like these are not fluffy, sort of, oh, just feel into it, bro. These are like really solid, how to make life better things. And so like, is there a weird dichotomy there? Like how how does that come from where you're at with the kindness and everything like that? Yeah, it's funny, you mentioned that because I was actually talking to Trevor a couple of weeks, a couple of days ago about this new thing that I'm creating. And his reflection to me was basically, yeah, you're like, the fun, adorable guy on the internet that people relate to. But you're not like this superficial, spiritually bypassing cloud, in the wind that just blows around, like, I've done a lot of hard shit. Like, I walked across all of Spain, and I have a PhD, and I wrote a book. And you know, I gave a TED talk, like, I've, I get my shit down. And so there is this kind of ferocity in me, or sovereignty is perhaps a better way where I know more and more who I am. And I sort of have my own back more and more. And so a lot of my work is grounded in,

in like,

not, I don't want to say it's like shadow work, but it's about like, the real shit is like, Who are you really like? What are your beliefs? My PhD research was about behavior change, looking at limiting beliefs, attitudes, actions, motivation, trying to understand the human psyche, from a marketing psychological perspective. And so I do have this kind of firm, research foundation upon which I've built myself in my life that I utilize with my clients. And yeah, like, I like to have fun and be playful. Because I feel like that's what life is about. I want to enjoy my life, I want to give my life meaning I want to love my life. And I have found as a very lazy person, that one of the best things I can do is to do really hard shit.

In order to facilitate an easier life, and the more hardship that I can do, the easier my life becomes.

Curt Storring 9:21

That's amazing. I feel that so much in my life, like we lived for two years in Thailand, and then Bulgaria and then Thailand, again with our kids. And it was like putting 20 years worth of like marriage, parenting and like life into two. And it was the hardest shit and it was like, it's actually one of the things that I'm eventually going to come out with, like, you know, an ethos or something. But like, one of the things that I put out is like, you have to do hardship, because it's on that hardship that you get to like craft your life. And if you never do that, you never have the opportunities to actually, you know, mold who you are or face. I don't know the gauntlet that will show you what you're made of. And I think that's a tragedy that people in our

society are like so eager to just have things comfortable and easy because they never get to know who they truly are. So I just I think I want to come back to this. But just as sort of a side point, man, this is exactly

what I've experienced. I hope people take heed, because it's not just, you know, run away from everything in order Uber, because it's like, super simple. Let's get back on track your story have already it's been like one question. I'm already off. Yeah. And it's not your fault, either. I want to talk about kindness, obviously. And I want to talk about joy, too. This is something that is like so foreign to most men, myself included. I had a podcast guest that taught Adams I think it was who asked me? When was the last time you jump for joy? It's like, Are you kidding? He's like, No, seriously. It's like, oh, and I thought about it. And I was seven years old. And I just scored my very first hockey goal. And I jumped. And I was like, Oh, this is why don't do it anymore. This kid said to me, why did you jump, and it was just like, oh, unsafe, never do that again. And he just brought up this feeling. And it was like this insane longing for joy in my life. And something that I see so often is like, especially guys in the work, they get so deep in the work they forget to come up and actually live. And so I want to sort of like have a conversation around that. But I really loved what you say on your website, like the tagline or whatever it's called, live a life that would make you jealous, like, Oh, that is so good. And I wonder if that's a starting point. In terms of kindness, love positivity joy, because it brought to me like what are the feelings that I would have living a life that I'm jealous of? I think those might be at, like the positive feelings that are so elusive in our society. So is that a good jumping off point to sort of start the discussion? Is there a way that you want to start this discussion? Before we get into sort of specifics? Like what is? What is kindness? What is all that kind of stuff?

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 11:55

I have no idea, man. Oh, we can start anywhere? But essentially, perhaps, perhaps, uh, let me think this through, like stepping back for a moment, the question that I start with, with all my clients, or when I'm doing one on one work is simply what do you want? So it's like if somebody books an introduction, very overloaded up in introductory call with me, it's like, okay, what do you want? Like, what do you want from this call? Right, and we dive in, and we set some intentions, we get some clarity, right, there is a rough path ahead of us. And then when we start to work together, it's the same thing, like, what do you want? In your relationship? What do you want from your career? What do you want from your life? Like, these are very simple questions, but they're also huge and profound. And for many people, myself included previously, and still today, I find that people don't give the time and energy required to these questions, right. And then eventually, you wake up after a year or a decade or a lifetime. And there's this deep sense of unfulfillment, or regret, or shame or disappointment that has been festering all that time. And so I often just say, like, what do you want? Like, what do you Who do you want to be? What kind of dad do you want to be? Like, what kind of man do you want to be? And it's different for everybody. Right. And I think that

having the clarity around that vision for you as an individual is a really powerful thing. Because that clarity requires a deep awareness of who you are inside the blocks, the limitations, the obstacles that you feel inside the fear, right. And that awareness, I believe, is the starting point for everything good. And so that's kind of the way that I begin with the work that I want. And from there, I mean, we could talk about values or ideals, or goals or habits, etc.

But yeah, that's a little bit of a starting point. I'm to the point about kindness. That's kind of how I just see kindness and compassion as a root solution to a lot of the root problems that I see in the world. When you talk about domestic violence or other ism like us versus them, racism, greed, all the rest of it. I feel like we forget that we're all human, that we're all trying the best that we can.

That we've all never really done this before.

Especially all these dads listening. It's like, yeah, that first time you you saw your kid.

I haven't met a dad that's like, Oh, totally was solely fine. I knew exactly what I was doing and everything worked out fine, like no freaking out, because you never done this ship before. And so I think when we can remember that when we can remind our

ourselves that the world would just be a better place. And again, I say this as a lazy human, who makes a lot of mistakes. This is a selfish endeavor, like I'm trying to have a more compassionate world, because I'm going to screw up, I'm going to have terrible hard days when I'm overwhelmed with grief, and pain and exhaustion. And you know what, I still have to drive my car, and it's tough to go in public, I still have to show up for work. And if we can create a community, culture, a society that holds me in that, that sees the real me, that doesn't judge me, based upon my mood, or my specific behavior on a given day. That feels easier to me. And I feel like that world is better as a whole. And so I'm kind of on this rampage, of kindness and compassion, and grace and understanding.

Curt Storring 15:53

To try to do that, really. I really love the stark contrast between rampage and kindness. I appreciate that.

The thing that coming up for me is, it's almost a similar question for gratitude and a similar in a sense, where it's like, okay, how do you? How do you become grateful? How do you get that in your life? And it's like, Okay, here's all the reasons and that it's good. And, you know, you can just start journaling and gratitude. But I have the same question for like kindness and compassion, because it seems so unusual. In this day and age, it's not like badass, it's not seen as strong. It's not something that we even experience or are encouraged to experience on a day to day basis. And so where do we begin to start fostering more of that in our lives so that we can then bring it to other people? Or is it even the other way around? Maybe we bring in other people first, like, how do we build this into our lives so that it can actually serve us

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 16:52

in the same way that you build strength, right, by going to the gym and putting in the reps in the same way that you do anything difficult is you just have exposure therapy, and you start doing it and you start leaning in and you start intentionally practicing those ideals. Another thing that I find helpful is to reframe attributes as skills. So for example, being uncomfortable, I believe is a skill. Being grateful is a skill. Being present is a skill. being compassionate, and understanding is a skill. And you can get better at those things, the more that you intentionally choose to be in that place doing those things. And I also believe that kind hearts are strong hearts. And so broadly speaking, if you say words like compassion, kindness, gratitude, there is this, in my opinion, sweeping generalization that those words are feminine, weak, a pushover.

Soft, right? That such cetera. And I just don't buy it. Like, I find that being the bigger man, so to speak, or biting your tongue, or not being reactive, or being compassionate and caring, and understanding is actually a very masculine thing to do. It's a it's an act of being a good man. And so going back to definitions and whatnot, how do you like like, what does it mean to be a good man? What does it mean to be a good dad? Right? And so in my opinion, it's like,

one of the primary responsibilities of being a good man or a good dad is to facilitate and create safety, safety, for your family safety for your child, safety for your partner, safety for your community. And not just physical safety, but emotional and spiritual safety as well. Like, how are you going to raise a kid? If you're judging that kid, if you're shaming that kid, if you're shitting on their hopes and dreams, right? If they don't feel safe coming to you, to be honest, if they don't feel safe, around you to fully express themselves, like, you're gonna have a an interesting time as a child in an environment like that. So again, this idea of like rampaging about kindness and compassion, I'm essentially trying to redefine what it means to be a man, like I wrote this piece years ago about the need for a massive man's formation, like we need to transform what it means to be a man today. And so I don't know I just view I just view it differently. And I'm going around doing my best to speak up and speak out about the benefits of this world.

You end up this mindset because I deeply believe that when we can cultivate these traits intentionally and get better at them get better at being loving, get better at being, caring, get better at feeling deeply, then the world is going to be better as well.

And like, I might be proven wrong, man one day, but I don't actually,

I think evilness is the way to go. So I think you're just barking up the wrong. Yeah, it's hard to say. We need more greed, you know, like more more separateness, and more, more judgment, more reactivity and more fighting and more, you know, refusal to negotiate like, how's that been going for us for a couple? 1000? Yeah, and I'm glad you went there. Because the the comparison between them suddenly makes rather than just the lack of the negative, the need for the positive? You know, it's not just like, oh, let's, let's just stop doing this. It's like, no, that has a, that really has an opposite. And we can leave that out. And I want to try and ground this a little bit more into

Curt Storring 21:04

maybe tactics, because if it's unusual to do these things consciously, I feel like there might be two ways to look at this. And one is, like, what are just some small things? I think I at your TED talk, I heard that you like gave a card to a woman who was crying, pretend potentially. And so that's like one very acute act of kindness or compassion. And I want to hear more of that if you've got them. And also, like, is there something? Is there a healing? Is there growth work that needs to be done to enable us to feel this stuff more, rather than default to the negativity and the judgment and the blame? Like, what kind of work can we do? Because as we talked about in this podcast, like, is there some inner work? Is there some growth work to go through to be even the type of person who's like, oh, yeah, I really feel compassion and empathy and love and kindness. So do either of those. Bring anything up for you?

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 22:01

Yes, very eloquent and thorough questions that like we could spend an hour on.

Yeah, so one thing that comes up is the idea that when I talk about kindness and compassion, it's it's also primarily related to self, to how you talk to yourself, how you view yourself, how you judge yourself, how you love yourself. And so it's very difficult to love the world. If you hate yourself, right? It's very difficult to be an understanding Father, if you judge and shame yourself inside, right? We talked about a little of this, before we started recording, but shadow work, getting involved with other men going to therapy, getting a coach, and actually doing the individual work required to heal, to accept to embrace what happened to you, and to consciously and intentionally put a stake in the ground and be like, this is how I'm committing to showing up moving forward. This is the life that I've decided I'm going to create. And then diligently putting in the effort to cultivate

a better sense of responsibility, agency, agency and strength in yourself to follow through with the things that you want to do. And I'm talking here about of course, the word integrity, which is like doing the thing that you say you're going to do, and living a life where your actions are aligned with your values. It's like getting in integrity. And that's really difficult. I mean, this is not easy shit, right? I neglected to ask if I can use profanity, and I've just burst into your house and started fuck you. Sorry, I can't believe I'm throwing poop on the walls here. My bad. No, please do. It's fine. I should have asked but

yeah, so. So this idea of kindness and compassion as being this delicate, fragile thing, I think is fucking nonsense. Because it is really difficult, in my experience, to be kind to myself when I know that I used to be an asshole when I know that I cheated on people, but I drank too much. And I was addicted to drugs. And I didn't make that phone call where I said that thing. Like, this is real stuff. And it is very difficult to be brave enough to choose love.

Instead of shame. Like that is an act of tremendous courage in my experience, in my opinion, right and so this idea that like, oh, just be nice, just be kind no worries like that's the spiritually bypassed nonsensical version of what I'm discussing. What I'm talking to here is about

heeling deeply, feeling fully, and like showing up and staring that dark space inside right in the fucking face and being like, I'm going to choose to go there, I'm going to feel this, I'm going to go to therapy, I'm going to lean into this, instead of numbing out drinking too much, avoiding too much blaming people, it's like I'm going to show up, I'm going to put my hand up, and I'm going to show up, and I'm gonna admit what I was wrong, I'm going to do my best moving forward, and I'm going to swallow my fucking pride. And I'm going to attempt to be a better man.

Like, this is, this is like real stuff. You know, and I know that you know this. And I know that those listening also know this. And it's so tempting to not, it's so easy in our society, in our culture. So just numb out and go to work, come home, have a beer, watch Netflix for four hours, help the kid with the homework, go to bed, lather, rinse, repeat up, that's your whole life. It is a skill and a rare skill, in my opinion, to consciously decide to live a more uncomfortable life.

Because healing requires discomfort. And growth requires discomfort. And change requires discomfort. And guess what? Discomfort is uncomfortable? It's fucking tough, right? And so from a practical perspective, to your point about what can you do each day, one thing that I do, that's very simple, is, every day I step into the shower, and I take a cold shower for like 30 seconds. And every day, it is terrible, and miserable, and I hate it. So I get in the shower. And this is like my daily routine, I do like a workout in the morning, I'll do some stretches, I get in the shower, and I stare at those hot and cold nozzles. And I think, and maybe not today, or like, I'm tired, or I'm sick, or I've been so good about it. And I confront the excuses, right. And then I consciously put my hand on the cold water. And then still it's like,

and then I do it, I blast myself with this parade of cold fury. And I chatter and I freeze, and then I turn the hot on. And so that for me is discomfort practice, right. And it's not necessarily about the cold water as much as it is putting myself in a position to choose the uncomfortable thing, when the comfortable thing is also an option. Right. And so if I can choose to do that, and again, building up the skill of being uncomfortable, building up the skill of choosing to be uncomfortable, then when I have something hard to say to my partner, when I need to have an uncomfortable conversation with her, or one of my friends or my boss, whomever it is, it's the same idea. But it's the cold nozzle choice of like, maybe tomorrow or you know, it could talk myself out of it. But I'm putting in the skills and the practice to do that. Another one for me that I am a big fan of is meditation. And so every day, I sit with just my thoughts in my body. And I attempting to I call it presence practice, or boredom practice, which is getting more familiar and getting more intimate and getting more aware about the thoughts that are going on inside my head.

And that helps me to navigate those thoughts and my mind in other situations when I'm not just sitting on the couch with my eyes closed. And so I'm cultivating a pause button of responding instead of reacting. Right when I feel in my body, the anger rise up, or the need to have a knee jerk response to something that I hear said or written on the internet. That meditation practice gives me the briefest little moment of like,

pause, just like switch on the real part of my brain says Do you really want to say that? Is it that big of a deal? And I can actually think rather than

I have a very,

a very good history of putting my foot in my mouth, or saying things that are inappropriate. And again, like as a lazy person, especially in my relationship. I find this to be invaluable. Because if I can stop myself from saying something, then that, I mean, let's just be real. I think like we've all been there in conversation. I'm speaking heteronormative ly here but like with my partner who's a female, I will have these moments where occasionally I will say something and then I will like watch the words come out of my mouth.

It'll be like, Oh, shit. And I'll like briefly close my eyes. But like, I wish I had a rewind button on life right now. Because now that that one sentence thing is escaped my mouth, I get to have a half an hour of conversations. And I get to hold space and I get to apologize. And I get to try to clarify what I what I really meant, and how and how I didn't mean that. So, as an as a lazy person, I find that that skill is is really helpful.

Curt Storring 30:28

Man, okay, that's a few ideas. Yeah, I want to go even cool. Where do we take this in? You're right, this is like a, you know, hour long conversation progression. And that's, I don't know, maybe that's the good part of it, because you got to go with what comes up first. So things coming up for me is like, Okay, I was expecting there to be a lot more external stuff. And I love that you're bringing it into the internal, because I say on this podcast all the time, like the best way to become a great father or a great husband, become a great man. And what does that look like? We're, it's working on yourself. It's meditating, it's journaling, it's going into your triggers, it's healing your wounds, healing your trauma, doing all this stuff to help you feel better, so that you don't lash out. And so your triggers are not in control. And what I'm hearing is, discomfort is like the pathway to being able to love and that seems a bit profound. So I don't know, like, where else even to go from there. Because what I thought you were gonna say is like, Oh, I buy like Starbucks for people who are behind me in line and like, I give cards to people, maybe that's part of it, maybe that's the externally externalizing of it. But the fact that it goes back to the fundamentals again, and guys listening, like if you're not getting this and you're not doing your work, the fact that we've just found like love and kindness and gratitude and all that kind of stuff comes back to you and doing your work like insane. Get on the train, guys start doing the work.

But okay, I'm like, my mind has been blown. Now. What about the external version of this, I guess, because let's just go there. And maybe it's not the right thing to do. But let's say like, you've come to a place where you're okay with discomfort. You love yourself? Oh, actually, let's go there first. Let's do some more self love. And then we'll go to the externalized. Have you practiced building self love? Because I know it was the thing for me that was like, completely foreign. My self talk was, Oh, you made a mistake. You're a fucking idiot. Like, you suck. You're a loser. How can anybody even like you. And literally, it was like you're unlovable, you know, can make a mistake. And it took me a long time and a hard road, to sit with it and notice it. And then actually, like I had to, I like told myself, I love parts of my body. Like, it's so weird to think about, but it worked. And so I wonder like, what in your work, and in your experience? can we do to establish that relationship? That we can actually find that love and compassion for ourselves?

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 32:58

Yeah, just just that light and fluffy question. Hey, if you could just like answer that immediately. That'd be great. Let's just figure out how to enlighten the audience real quick.

Yeah, again, like, I think it goes back to some some of what I said previously, which is the awareness component, and the desire to really understand yourself. And so to use your example, you, you were really harsh about when you made a mistake, then it's the response is, I'm an idiot, right? And it's like, okay, non judgement, like, that is a thing that is happening. And so the scientist in me often goes to this place of data collection, or information gathering, right? And so for those listening, it's just like, gathering up some facts, right? Getting the getting the picture straight, it's like, okay, so when I make a mistake, I go to this place of extreme judgment. And I criticize myself when I say, you're an idiot. Right? Okay. There's just no emotional attachment, attachment to that. But like, where did that begin? Like, Whose voice is that? Where did you learn that? And another powerful question that I'm often considering is, how does this benefit me? Right? So how do I, how do I gain something from this behavior from this attitude from this response? How does it serve me? Because when because it does, in some sense. And if you're going to change that thing, then you're going to essentially challenge the benefit that it provides to you. And that is also uncomfortable. Right? And so for you, hypothetically, when you were a kid, you learned in your maybe your dad was super critical. And when you made mistakes, he got mad at you and called you an idiot and you learned that, oh, I need to be perfect to receive love. Right? I need to not make any mistakes in order to belong, or like me

Maybe you make a mistake and you get kicked out of the dinner table or you get grounded or whatever. And so as a young child, we learn from those around us those that raised us those who are our peers or teachers, it's like, okay, cool. It's, it's a story, right? And if you take away nothing else from this entire podcast, take away the idea that beliefs are choices. And that beliefs can be chosen, and they can be unchosen. They can be learned. And you can evolve those things. And so, I mean, this is like, where do I go from here. So, when we're young, we learn these things, we learn like a software program, we learn how the world works, we learn to survive in the household, we learn to survive in the family, we learn to survive in that dynamic. And all of the attributes and characteristics of our personality helps us to belong and receive love and survive.

And that works great when we're three years old, or six years old. And then you get to be 20, or 30, or 40. And you're in a relationship with a person who is also an adult. And some of those attributes no longer serve us. Right? Whether that's being sarcastic or not talking about your feelings. In my experience, women love that one. Don't talk about your feelings that goes over really great, at least in my experience.

And so again, if you are so from my my situation, I grew up in a family that we didn't really talk about our feelings very much. And I was around a lot of emotion. My parents got divorced, divorced early, there's a whole story. But I basically learned that my job as a six year old boy, is to take care of my mom and my sister, and not create more drama and stress for my mom in particular, who was having a really hard time and going through a lot. And so then I learned in that dynamic to just bottle everything up. And I'm good. And to not take up space and to not express emotion. I learned that tears are bad. And that have to stop mom from crying, and etc. And that was the dynamic as a kid, but then as an adult.

That doesn't serve me, right. That doesn't serve me very well. And so I need to get better at holding space for emotion. I need to get better at communicating how I'm feeling need to get better at taking up space. I need to get better at crying. I'm not that great at crying right now. My girlfriend is is like a gold medal crier. She's like, She's such a good crier cries all all the damn time. And I don't. Right. And so I guess to wrap all of this up, it's about getting curious with yourself about who you are, and how you show up in the world and why. And then about fact, checking that with the version of yourself that you most desire to be or that you most truly are. It's like, Hey, I like to think of myself as a good guy, and a good dad. And I want to be that. But also I've got these couple of niggling things that I do

that I would like change that I wish, you know, that I need to, but I'm being invited to pay attention to so that I don't raise my kid in the way that I was raised. Like we often become our parents, right? It's so annoying. Oh my god. Right? My dad? How did that happen? Yeah, so then it's like, again, with kindness and compassion. Being aware of those things, and giving them attention because

because like showering yourself with shame and judgment and criticism doesn't actually help. Right? It doesn't change the underlying thing. It's I call it like a shit sandwich or like a shit Sunday is yeah, you're still judgmental or reactive. Or, yeah, in my case, I still don't express emotion as much as I would like. And that's the fact but then piling on like, I'm a bad person. I'm a bad partner. I'll never change I'm an idiot. I'm a loser, bla bla bla. It doesn't help it just puts more weight on that thing that I desire to influence right? And so again, if I can be compassionate, but okay, I do this thing was super helpful. It protected me for a long time. I love that I do that because it got me to this point now. And, you know, I'm going to try some other stuff. Like

what is that? Is it Goldilocks? Like the not too hot, not too cold, like just forage. It's like each, you started there. So you don't start too easy. You don't

Start to hard you start, like when you go to the gym, I keep using that as an analogy, but like, you don't lift the one pound weights, and you don't lift the 1000 pound weights, you lift the weights that feel like they're pushing back a little bit that feels like your limit. And so you start there with honesty, with compassion, with vulnerability, right? And then use as you get better at that level, think of it like a video game. So like, you start at level one, and then you like, do that for a while and you've mastered it. It's like, okay, cool. Now you go to level two, and there's a different boss, and the boss is like, bigger and has different missiles and lasers and shit. And you're like, I don't know, I'll never beat this guy, and then stay there for a while he figured out, you go to level three.

Curt Storring 40:44

So yeah, that's, that's a long rant. That's great, man. No, that's, that holds so true to my own experience as well. And I bet I would, I would guess you're probably really good at holding space now, because of your experience as a child. Like that, that sounds almost exactly like my childhood, you know, really early divorce, making sure that I wasn't taken up space, making sure that I, you know, tiptoed around everything to make sure mom wasn't too upset. And, you know, now great the wound has actually given fruit, which is like, now I can hold the shit out of space for anyone for anything. And it was like, for a long time, I sort of like resented that, like, oh, how can I? Why do I have to hold space for when I just want someone to hold space for me, and sometimes they still do. And now it's like, it's actually a superpower, which is amazing. And which I think if you as a listener can go into that place your own deepest wound, you'll find that that's where your superhero superpower lies to. A couple of things that I just want to share in regards to the self love and sort of inner voice is this idea of acceptance without judgment. And what I mean by that is, I eventually figured out after a lot of shit Sunday's, as you say, that I could say, I want things to be perfect. And I'm disappointed that they're not, rather than and I'm a fucking idiot, because they're not. And it's like, Oh, my God, I didn't even know I could do that. And so this change of wording where you're just like, you admit that yes, you wanted the perfection or whatever it is, and that you have the feeling. And that those things are just like facts, like you say you're collecting this data. And there's a couple other things as well, like, I like to learn to forgive myself, to stop calling myself like a, you know, an idiot or a loser. Like that was hurt Kurt, you know, that guy was really, really hurt. He was in pain. He didn't know what to do. He had no, no like resources. And of course, he acted like that, like, oh, man, I forgive that guy. And finally, what I had to remind myself, when our mind guys that I talked to a lot is like, the things that brought these wounds to you. They were not your fault. Like the shame that I felt for all the things that had happened to me that I internalized. I didn't do anything to deserve those. It's very unfair. It's not my fault. And yet, as you're talking about it, it's your complete responsibility to do anything about it. And that's a hard pill to swallow when you're just getting into this work. But it's unnecessary to actually have the like, agency or the sovereignty, like you said, to do anything about it. So I don't know if that has been true in your life, too. Or if you have any comments on that. Yeah, it was just what came up to me was diapers. So like, a lot of dads are listening, right? It's like, Yo, your kid poops. And guess what you have to deal with the dirty diaper. And like, you didn't cause it? You didn't? I mean, you kind of did, right? Because, but like, in that moment, you didn't cause that thing. It just appeared in your life. And guess what, probably rather not change a dirty diaper. But it's your responsibility to deal with it. And that can be really frustrating. Like, oh, man, there's part of me, that's a little brat. Like, I don't want to deal with that. Gosh, I thought I was done with healing. I thought that was a good man. And there's just nonstop levels to this stuff. Right. And one other thing that I would add to, to what you just said was this idea from Byron Katie, which is the very simple question of Is this true? Right. And so we often times if you dig deep enough, internally, when there's mischief happening in your mind, or your heart or the world, it's like, oh, you have a belief that everything should be perfect. Like, is that true? Like, is that a reasonable belief to have about the planet? Well, no, obviously not when you can separate yourself from it. But in the moment, it's like, oh, no, this date should be perfect. This report should be perfect. My child should be perfect, blah, blah, blah. And so when you can have greater clarity and understanding about your own belief systems that form the foundation of your life, it'll help to understand where your reactions are coming from. Right. And so earlier

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 45:00

touched upon the idea that

we have in our society common belief systems also like, men don't cry. Crying is bad. Kindness is weakness. Compassion is for sissies, whatever, right? And so you can begin to interrogate these beliefs, but only after you have clarified them and understand what the actual belief itself is. Right? And so a lot of this comes up in therapy, working in group programs, listen to this podcast. Hopefully people are like, Oh, shit, I do this thing, or, wow, I hadn't thought of it that way before. So these are good examples of little lights in the dark to start following or breadcrumbs towards some deeper changes.

Curt Storring 45:45

Man, this is we're so far through and we've only got to like one question. This is amazing.

So okay, let's let's touch on Joy quickly, because I want to make sure we get there.

I am, honestly, I have no idea where to go with this because I am very bad at joy, and like positivity because I just want to keep grinding man, like, just keep doing my work. Just keep building the business. Just keep have man and just like, go into my shadows and heal. And yet, I'm coming to realize that I missing a lot. And speaking of hockey, which I said before, like where my my joy initially came from, and then was halted. Dude, I scored the championship winning overtime goal for my hockey team a couple days ago. And that, interestingly enough, brought up a feeling that I might call joy. And so it's like, Oh, damn, where do I cultivate more of this? And I just, I want to ask you, like, do you even know how to do that? Do you have a lot of joy in your life? How do men get there? Because it's again, it's like the societally uncool thing like, Oh, you're jumping for joy? You're a loser. It's like, No, man, I love my life. Isn't that cool? Isn't that badass? I think it is. So you have any thoughts on like, cultivating joy?

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 47:00

Yeah, so even, even in your language to describe yourself, you said I'm bad at joy. Right? It was so like, that my coaching hat on is like, that's interesting. Like, that's an interesting belief to have about yourself. And if you're, if you believe consciously or otherwise, that you're bad at something, then how often are you likely to attempt it, or to embrace it or to practice it, right? Going back to the idea of like, a beginner's mindset. When you're on level one, when you're in the discomfort for the first time, when you're at the gym, for the first time, we're starting the job for the first time. It's really uncomfortable, like it Sucks to suck at something, right? And so, like a reframe would be, I'm getting better at joy, or I'm improving every day living more joyfully, or whatever, in the same way that you would practice vulnerability, honesty, integrity, I would be like, practice joy. Like, I would literally, like assign you homework, like practice joy, like every day, I want you to write down five things you're grateful for that are that fill you with joy. And to start, I call them life lenses are like gratitude goggles, like, what you put on your frickin Joy lenses and start seeing through the world through that. Right. So that's one idea. Second idea would be what I said a moment ago of starting to interrogate where that came from. So like, where did you learn? You individually? Where did you learn what it means to be the happy guy? Or like, where did you learn that joy is bad? Or that people who are super happy or annoying, right? And that might be a parent in childhood that was feeling unhappy or jealous that made some comments about a celebrity on TV is like, Oh, look at this guy is millionaire. Fuck that guy. Right. And so there's also a cultural component as well. So I'm Australian, I lived in Australia for a while and they have this idea of the tall poppy syndrome, they call it which is like, if you grow too high, and you stick out, they will like cut you down or bring you back to size. Because who are you're not better than any of the rest of us. And you need to be humble, and like, Don't risk putting yourself out there. And so in that regard, Joy equals risk. Joy equals vulnerability to what people will think equals potential pain. Right? And so there's, like it gets complex, right? The digger or the deeper that you start digging. It's like, oh, it has nothing to do with joy at all. It has everything to do with like, childhood and fitting in or the one incident in the playground in seventh grade when whatever you said like it hockey, it's like, oh my gosh, that crystallized into this deep, profound lesson for me.

that I've built my entire life around.

So for me,

practices would be to pursue wholeness rather than happiness is one sort of mantra that I am a fan of. So when I talk about wholeness, I mean feeling disappointment, feeling sad feeling grief.

I read this line the other day that grief is just love squaring up to its oldest enemy. I was like, full. That's so good.

So wholeness living a wholehearted life get not just the bright and shiny end of the spectrum, but the darkness, the shadows, the contrasting colors that provide a little bit more depth to everything.

Yeah, and then also, zooming out is another thing I'm a big fan of so like, zoom out, like we're on a sphere spinning through vast infinite nothingness around the fireball in the sky, half the world is upside down right now. Life is fucking bananas. Right? There's trees growing outside my window that just grow towards the sun, they don't even have a brain like what the hell is a lake? Like, life is insane. If you look closely enough, like there are aliens that live at the bottom of the ocean, things are things are frickin bananas.

And how cool for us to be here to experience it. And so I tried to meditate what I called presence practice. So that when I'm walking down the street, I noticed things more often, we'll take a look at the thing. That's cool. Like, whoa, like fingernails grow out the end of my fingers. That's, that's so weird. And like, I can make sounds with my throat and like Kurt can understand those weird noises. And like, I can smell things with my nose. Like, there's so much to be astounded by. And I know that for all those parents listening, you would perhaps have an easier time seeing or experiencing joy in your child. Because like little kids and toddlers in particular, they're just pure present weirdos, who don't give a shit about what other people think. Like, they gotta poop, they're gonna poop, they're hungry, they're gonna scream, they want something, they're gonna throw a temper tantrum, like they haven't learned how to behave. The their uniqueness hasn't been taught out of them by school and culture and society, right. And so I believe that we can learn a lot from our children. Like I used to work at a preschool. And it was just always super fun to just try to see the world through their eyes, and like to live in the in the way that they do. Because, I mean, you give the little, little kid like ice cream after dinner, and they lose their shit. And they jump for joy. And they're running around the yard. And it's like, this is the best day of my life. Right? And so, inherently, we all have that in us. Like we were all those little humans at some point in our past. And we have been taught not to be. And so oftentimes, in personal development, in particular, when men are doing the work, it's often about what can I learn? What more skills can I add? What tools can I add in my tool belt? How much bigger and better can I be, and I believe that we can. And we should give as much attention to unlearning parts of ourselves to like, take off some of that armor, to get rid of some of those beliefs to unlearn those behaviors and habits that like have kept us the way we are for so long. And in doing that unlearning, what's left behind is is like who we really are. Right? So years ago, I was in Vancouver, and I was in this, this building on a couch and I was talking to this somatic practitioner named nikoloz, who's amazing.

And she said to me, how do you know who you really are? What part of you is the survival mechanism from childhood? And how do you tell the difference? And I

put my head in my hands and dropped my jaw and said, Oh, shit, like, I

don't know. I don't know who I really am. What part of me and my personality is a response to childhood survival. And I have no idea how to tell the difference. And so that question, changed many things for me. And it has led me on this kind of quest to uncover and unpack that, like, Who who are you? It's such a deep question. And when I talked earlier about what do you want? It's like, is that answer being cultivated by who you really are? Or is that response being cultivated by the survival mechanism? And the thing that you think you should want and the life

Curt Storring 55:00

You think you should be creating? And how do you tell the difference? And I think that is like the crux of the work, so to speak. Yeah, if we had more than a couple of minutes, I was going to ask like, Okay, what's the answer? Man, you can't live with hanging. And yet, you guys listening are gonna have to have some homework? Because I don't know if we have time to get into that unless it's a quick answer that you've sort of distilled into sort of this, I don't know, easily digestible thing. Is there. A quick answer to that I imagined not but what have you, I think it's, it's like wrapped up in, in everything we've been talking about today, which is like, what is actually a survival mechanism? What's Where do my beliefs come from, and why the way that I've kind of worked through it is that

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 55:43

I feel like there's a battle between my head and my heart, or my mind and my body. And that, oftentimes, my fears, so I have this phrase, fear shouts and heart whispers, and so that my fear in my brain will be screaming at me. You can't do that. You're an idiot. What will your dad think? What will? What will my partner think? What will society say? That's impossible, I'll never make money. And there's this fear shouting from inside my brain. And then meanwhile, in my body, in the silence stillness that I cultivate through meditation, or a walk in nature, or whatever, or a shower, sometimes you have these epiphanies, my body, there's this, what I call heart whisperer. That's like,

Hey, man, you should, you should start that business. Or, hey, you should move the family to Costa Rica or stay.

You should ask that person out. Or you should leave your marriage or stay, whatever it is. And there's this deeper, intuitive knowing that, in my experience, is super annoying sometimes, because that little heart whisper is not what I want to hear. It's not what I believe to be true. It's often scary and expansive, and annoying. It's like, No, I can't just start a goat farm in my backyard. No, I can't just sell the house to do that wild thing. And, like, maybe I could, maybe I should. And so my answer to that would be to be,

huh, be better at cultivating the conversation with the various parts of myself.

Curt Storring 57:32

Because when I can give voice to those various parts, then I can really understand with a little bit more clarity, what's going on inside. So like, all my shit goes back to like, it's an inside job. And do this is the problem, okay? It's not a problem. But it's this is the thing that I come up into. It's like literally everything just like turned back on yourself, put the awareness and the engine on yourself, and start getting curious. And it's like, man, first of all, there's like awareness. And you're like, Oh, now I like self awareness. And from self awareness comes authenticity. And like, there you go, then you're like, then you got your answer. But it takes the practice of being in it. And being uncomfortable, which wraps up everything we've talked about and did. Like, we tried our hardest to go into kindness and joy and stuff like that. And I think we just got like a, you know, high level enterprise of like, how to do the fucking work. And I love that, because we did touch on the positivity too.

So I wonder if you have things just to add to that, like,

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 58:31

you can't have joy, like, like when I realized, for example, that I have some weird limiting beliefs. Or when I realized like, Oh, my God, I was such an asshole in that conversation. Like that, to me is a joyful moment. I'm like, Oh, my God. I figured it out. Or like, I learned something. And like, learning something is like a jump for joy moment. Like, oh my god, I got it. I had an epiphany. I cracked the code. I have a realization. That cool. That's gonna make me a better partner, a better man, a better businessman. I'm gonna make more money I'm gonna have a better relationship won't be a better dad. Like, that's fucking cool. And so I don't think that joy. Joy needs to be like ice cream sundaes, and unicorn orgasms and glitter bombs and like all of it, it can be like, wow, you know, I feel 1% Better than yesterday. Like, that's fucking awesome. Or like, wow, I don't feel like killing myself today. Like, that's a win. Right? And so we, I think collectively need to be better at celebrating the little victories. And like the little joyful moments, like I'm trying to train myself when I get when like, I'm asleep, and I'm unconscious, and then I'm awake. And like my open my eyes. I'm trying to train myself for the first thought to be like, yes, yes. Made it made it through the night because like we ever watched the person sleep. It's fucking weird. They're just

like, gone, they're just not here. But it just like completely lights out, powered down, off somewhere else. Right? And then you're back. It's like, oh my god, I'm alive again. And so that's like another minor thing that I'm trying to implement more and more, or like, Whoa, I can afford carrots. If that's fucking cool, like I've got, I've got money in the bag, or like, wow,

I sleep next to a woman that like, lets me see her naked and loves me. And, you know, like, makes me laugh and like, trying to really cultivate more gratitude in my life, and more appreciation and trying to, as I said, at the beginning, collect more silver linings of like, and seeing the bright side, not from a bypassing place that avoids and ignores all the pain and the shadows and the reality of life. But just to pay more attention to the amount of extraordinary goodness that I am surrounded by all the time. It's like, Oh, nobody I know, died today. Or like, wow,

I learned this the hard way years ago, like, Oh, when I pushed the brakes down in my car, they work. They don't go out and like half me crash into a telephone pole. Like, all of these things are going right for us every day. 1000s of things, millions of things that go my digestion works like, Oh, my vision works, my hearing works. And it seems so simple, and so cliche to try to focus on that stuff. But, and we and I know that we learned this the hard way. It's like when the when the darkness strikes, and something is taken away, or something deeply profoundly hurts us, then we then are like, oh, man, that was such a gift that I had that thing. Or God, I miss my mom. You know, God, I wish I would have said this differently. Or man, I was so lucky. And I and I took so much for granted. And so I'm saying, hey, what if we don't learn the hard way? And what if we try to learn the easy way, which is to lean into the daily discomfort, and the practice of gratitude. And the understanding that life is this wild? roller coaster ride. And if we can just cultivate a bit more kindness and compassion understanding for ourselves and each other, rather than having it

be thrust into our heads by a two by four from the universe, when we least expect it.

Curt Storring 1:02:41


I literally don't have the time to get into everything else. I've got like, a thank you, first of all, for calling out the word bad in the bad to join. I appreciate that coaching moment, I'll send you the check after. But also like to realize that there are blocks to joy, as though it was like, my head goes, Oh, it must just be like hard to do joy because it's the you know, the opposite of feeling like shit all the time. And if I feel like shit all the time, then it's hard. And then it's like, okay, if I don't feel like shit, then I'll just be joyful. But it's not that way. There's actually when you said there's like blocks or wounds or whatever in front of joy, like, you know, telling the guy on the screen who's a celebrity like, Oh, look at a fucking loser. What an asshole. And you learn not to go there. Like that's a brain gasm for me, because it's like, Oh, I thought it was just like the opposite side of negativity. But no, it's cultivating the positive side to and there can be blocked to that. That is a very interesting path to go down and self development that I had not even considered before. And that's saying something. So yeah, thank you for that dude. And the thing that just add to that, yeah, please. Oh, sorry. Is that I interrupted you? I don't know, please. One thing I was gonna say is that you see this commonly when it comes to money, or wealth, money mindset, which is like, rich people are jerks. Rich people are assholes. Oh, also, like, I want more money. Like I want. I want like more savings. I want more wealth. You're like, okay, so simultaneously inside, you believe rich people are assholes. And I want to be rich, right? And so you could just see the friction that is going on internally. And that happens frequently. Around all kinds of stuff, right? So it's like, I want to be happier. Okay, what does it mean to be happy? Oh, it's annoying and obnoxious and all these happily, happy people on the internet. I want to just, I want to delete and cancel. It's like, okay, so you want to be happy and happy as bad. So how, how could that possibly work out? So that's just one other idea. But you were gonna say the thing for dads is great, man. Thank you for laying that out for me. Yeah. The thing with dads is that we have kids to watch and the thing that you were saying I read in the DaVinci biography, I can't remember Isaacson. I think it was and basically like he

He noticed shit so intensely that like, he could see that the way that a bird's wing went up in a flap was different than the path it took to come back down. And like he was so specifically, like, in depth minutiae, noticing in the way that your kids are when they're operating in the world, that it's as you were saying, like, holy shit, there's fingernails in my hand like, whoa, nuts. And like, well, I woke up, oh, I can breathe. Oh, I'm not being bombed right now. Wow, my kids don't have like, you know, whatever my kids lived through birth. That's incredible. And to go back to like, ground level and stop taking you for granted. Like, holy shit, maybe we should just like write out literally everything that's not bad in our lives. And just read that every morning. Like, maybe that's the joy practice, maybe that's part of it and, and just like doing more shit that that you like, and being okay with that. But please go ahead. I see more. Yeah, no, I'd say yes, I love that. Make a list, read it. And also, I would invite you listening to feel it, to practice feeling the gratitude. So it's not just like, I got a job, we got some money, like I can afford carrots, like my kids alive. It's like, hang on, like, actually practice feeling the sensation in your body of like, Oh, my God, my partner created life in her body. And my child is this miracle that lived inside of her for nine months. Like, I'm so fucking grateful for that. Like, oh, wow, like, my parents are still here, or whatever, like, whatever it is to actually, in my experience is to practice getting the feeling like in the marrow of our being, and then that embodiment practice that idea that

knowledge is only rumor until it lives in the bones, I think is the line. Something like that is like yeah, I should be more grateful. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm lucky. Like, okay, cool. But that's just this rumor until it actually resides in who you are, like, in your cells, you know. So try to inject it daily, if you can't, yeah. And that that is like the the partner of all everything we've been talking about is notice it and then sit with it and feel it, like feel it to heal it and all that kind of, you know, the whatever the rhymes are, that are cliches, but true. If you can start to notice things better, you can start to feel them better, and you got to slow down to do it. I believe I have had to slow down to do it. Because I ran, I was checking off like I meditated. So I could go to the gym so I could stretch. So I could do yoga, so I could do whatever. And I did it all and it was good. But I didn't feel any of it. Until for me it was a failure and alleged failure. I stopped in my tracks and I sat with it and everything just went smack. And like knocked me out with feeling. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me. So like, there you go, guys feel your shit, even if it's bad. You're gonna handle it because you're human. And that's like what you're meant to do. So

do you have final thoughts? I want to be I'm not being at all respectful of your time, but I want to make sure that I don't do too bad.

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 1:08:13

Let me just check my calendar. Yeah, no, you're good, man. I got time.

Like another thought that I would offer saying it's primarily men that listen to your show. Yeah. Or like, partners to dads would be find community, like get yourself some good male friends, some good males to surround yourself with to immerse yourself with there are a variety of options out there. I know Kurt, you just were saying you're starting some kind of community or group coaching thing. It makes a huge difference. This idea that we are lone wolves that we have to do it all ourselves is nonsense. Quite literally, like lone wolves starve in the wild.

Like wolves need a pack.

So find yourself a wolf pack.

Whether that's with Curt or any number of other good men out there, follow good men on social media.

I mean, I could I could list a bunch but they're out there. Just get yourself in that space where you are consuming and ingesting quality. Like the you're following quality men that if you want to be one, like if you're still listening this like get yourself some quality men.

Read some good books. Reach out to people ask for help this idea that sharing weakness I believe is a sign of strength. I believe that strong men share weakness, kind hearts or strong hearts the same idea. vulnerability, I think, is an act

Curt Storring 1:10:00

have tremendous bravery. So you can start to cultivate these things. But more and more I'm seeing the powerful medicine that is men's work, and community, and support. And in all of that stuff is kindness, compassion, understanding, acceptance, Grace, like all of these things that I am attempting to communicate as being a requirement for masculinity, and for good men to embody. So yeah, that would be my last suggestion. Yeah, man, I, you might like this. I was doing a breathwork session, and I was judging myself, as you do sometimes, like, oh, I don't want this. No, don't don't make me go there. And the facilitator, the coach was like, is it hard? It's like, thank you. It's so hard. She's like, Don't strong men do hard things. And it's like, oh, fuck you. I don't want to go there. And it's like I had to, because you're right, man, this is so hard. It hurts. Comfortable. And what could be more manly than going in and dealing with the difficulty of your own shit? Oh, it's terrifying. And it hurts. And that's where you said courage, bravery, all that kind of stuff is found when you start looking in the recesses of your heart. So man, I just want guys.

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 1:11:26

Yeah, it's the worst, man. It's the worst. And like, you pick the gnarliest fighter in the gym, or the biggest, strongest bench pressing just dude, that, you know, that's one version of strength. And then it's like, okay, cool. Take that person, put them on a stage, give them a microphone and be like, talk to me about the worst day of your life. That is a different kinds of strength. Like, talk to me about the mistakes that you made. Talk to me about your childhood. Talk to me about what you're scared of, in your relationship. Talk to me about what worries you most about your children and, and your perceived limitations as a father, like put a person on a stage with a microphone, different kinds of strength entirely. And so I think we collectively have been sort of idolizing or worshiping the physical component, the stoicism, the withholding of heart for a long time, for far too long at our own individual and collective detriment. And the tides are turning, thankfully. And I think reframing a lot of this stuff that we're talking about, and the work that you're doing, and everything that you've said, is like this is an act of courage. This is an act of strength. And fundamentally, this is an act of power. So I find that narrative to be really helpful. Like when I remind myself like, oh, this cold shower or this hard conversation, or I'm being a whiny, little brat, it's like, hang on, man. Like, you want to be a brave man. Like, this is how it starts your training. It starts by showing up, it starts by following through starts by admitting that this kind of sucks, and doing it anyway. You know what I mean?

Curt Storring 1:13:14

Yeah, man, okay.

Dr. Jeremy Goldberg 1:13:16

I'm gonna maybe have to ask you this other question offline, because I'm now that I'm, I'm now coming upon my time. So thank you for staying, by the way, like there's an extra 10 minutes and I was I was hoping for and it's like, maybe the best stuff in the last 20 minutes. So thank you for getting through this. Where can people find you? What amazing things do you do? And please just give us your your best Schpeel because this has been amazing, man. Yeah, thank you again for having me and tolerating my various random tangents. But long distance love bombs is the biz. So I'm on Instagram, is the primary social network that I use, a lot of my words and work are there. I have a podcast called the long distance love bombs podcast, which has 167 episodes with therapists, coaches, men's work people, etc. I have a book called it'll be okay. And you will be to, which is like a small coffee table style book that you can rip out the pages and give them away to people, you can frame them, etc. And then yeah, I work one on one with people. I've got a couple online programs coming up. So if you want to connect, you can go to long distance, love and get in touch. And then yeah, occasionally a couple times a year I do a live retreat. So at the end of the year, I do one with Trevor Boehm who you mentioned and our friend Lila dilla. In the last few times I've been in Costa Rica, but that'll happen and then I'm going to Europe in the summer with Javor to do a couple of workshops in London at

Curt Storring 1:15:00

Burr, Scotland. I don't have to say, Amsterdam. And then I'm doing a 10 day walk with eight people is like a walking retreat on the Camino de Santiago. So I'm around doing all kinds of random stuff. Sweet man. That sounds like so much fun actually. Yeah, I should look into that. Yeah. All right, man. It's been fantastic. And I got so much more than I was expecting, which I was kind of expecting a lot because you're like, you know, out there doing a lot of sweet stuff. So I was like, oh, that's gonna be good. And it was maybe even better than I thought. So thank you so much, man. And thank you for the work you're doing. I appreciate you. Appreciate you also man long may it continue

Thank you for listening to the Dad Work Podcast. That's it for this episode. But if you would like to stay in touch between weekly episodes, why don't you go over to Instagram and follow me there because I drop a number of things throughout the week that are related to what we talked about on this podcast, but usually go a little bit deeper. provide some tips you can find me on Instagram at dadwork.curt. That's DADWORK.CURT And please, if you have been getting something out of this podcast, if it has touched you if it has improved your marriage, your parenting your life, would you please leave a quick review on Apple or Spotify. leave a rating. If you have a few extra seconds, leave a quick review. That's the best way that we can get this work in the hands of more fathers. And I truly believe that we change the world, one father at a time because each father that parents better that loves better raises children who do the same. And in just a couple of generations. I feel like we could be living in a world much better than the one we live in today. Your review will help along that path. And I thank you so much for being here to listen until next week. We'll see you then.

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