Curt Storring 0:00

Welcome to the Dad Work Podcast. My name is Curt Storring, your host and the founder of dad work. This is episode number 88. Raising kings in the power of masculine role models with my guest, Dylan Roos, we go deep today talking about understanding the long term impact of how you handle your child's emotions. Why Good communication is important when raising children and dealing with them when they're vulnerable. The importance of joining a men's group and building your band of brothers, normalizing having conversations with your kids about big topics like sex, drugs and dating, why it's vital to be a good role model for your children, and being able to intentionally initiate new ideas to your kids as a family. Dylan Roos is a master NLP practitioner and masculinity coach empowering independent young men to find their power, passion and purpose by transforming them from princes to Kings. You can find Dylan online at his website, dylanrooscoaching.com, or on Instagram at Dylan.Roos. That's R O O S. And of course you can also find all these links on our website at Dad.Work/Podcast. I'm excited to have Dylan on today, guys, we've been chatting on Instagram for a while. And I just think it's so important to have coaches and mentors outside of our family for our young men. And Dylan is one such man. So I really appreciate his perspective on this. If you have been enjoying the downward podcast, would you please leave us a review on Spotify or on Apple, Spotify allows you to leave a rating and apple you can leave a rating and review. It'll take literally five to 30 seconds of your time and I would appreciate it so much. This is how we get this into the hands of more men who need it. If you'd like to stay in touch between podcast episodes please follow me on instagram dadwork.curt that's D A D WORK.C U R T on Instagram. I post there regularly at stories and we can chat on there via messages if you want to get in touch. That's it for now. Let's get into Episode number 88 with Dylan Roos Here we go.

All right, dads, I'm here with Dylan Roos I'm excited to have you on because there's so much here that we're gonna get into that is not usually what we talk about. It's from a way different perspective. But I think it's probably even more useful to hear from you. Then from, you know, the other day that we talked about, and you'll hear why guys in a second. So Dylan, first of all, welcome, man, I'm excited to have you on I'm pumped about what you're doing just following your Instagram. So thanks for being here.

Unknown Speaker 2:17

Thank you, man. It's great to be here.

Curt Storring 2:19

Yeah. So the first thing I want to talk about is this idea that you brought up coming on to the show. And you said a son's perspective on parenting. And I asked you us like, what does this even mean? And yet you touched on something which I think we forget, as fathers. So often, I think there's almost two ways to look at this. But I'd love to hear more about what you think about this, because you were talking about like, you know what, how to parent if you just listened? And so can you go deeper into that and maybe start us off? And like how we can look for parenting advice from our own children?

Unknown Speaker 2:49

Yeah, I think. So. The way that I've always thought about it when I was when I was kind of being parented by my parents growing up was like, why aren't they listening to me more, you know, and obviously, sometimes I'm thinking that as a teenager, and I am dead wrong, of course. So parents use some discernment when listening to your teenagers, or your kids. But there was definitely moments where I'm like, Man, I just wish they would, they would just listen to me or just take some time just to slow down. I'm not the best communicator. And I think that's also what I want to touch on too is like, adults, men, mothers, fathers, struggled to communicate at the best of times, so your teenage son for your sons or your daughters, they're also going to they're going to struggle even more and so being really patient with it. But I think what, as I stepped into this space of mentoring young men, it was like, Man, I really want to do a course for parents. I don't know. I don't know how it's going to pick up I don't know how parents are going to go taking advice from me. But like, what in one of the first sentences of my sales copy, it's like, this is not a parenting course, I'm I'm not a parent. What I have been for basically, my whole life is a son. And and I think there's so much value to be found in just listening to a son's perspective of parenting. Because number one, who is going to be more critical of your parenting than than your children. No one probably maybe the grandparents, right? But so they're really critical. So that can open up so many doors to if you're open to hearing, you can open so many doors to like, here are your weaknesses. You know, here are things that you can work on. What are you going to do with that information? And I think, again, the average conversation kind of goes like fu mom fu dad, right? You're always doing this and then the parents like how dare you confront me and go back at them so this is more that safe container or I'm trying to create a safe container for parents where we you know, through my forging kings program, were like, hey asked me, you know, it's a Once a week q&a with me and a once a week group coaching course. So once a week, you can just jump on ask me any questions you want. From the sun's perspective. Again, I'm, maybe if you've got a parenting question I can I can answer them. But it's really about like, this is what your son's going through, you know, he's 16 years old. He's just had a crush on the weekend. And she's told him that they just want to be friends. Like, don't downplay that experience. You know, I think that was definitely one thing that I

Unknown Speaker 5:30

really upset me with my parents. And then I don't recall my parents for the next 60 minutes. They were great parents, and I'm really fortunate. But they definitely downplayed my emotional responses. And I saw it play out with my friends, and I see it play out in society. It's like, look, you're right, because you're an adult. And because you've been through everything, like you're right, like, it's not a big deal. But it's a big deal to me, 16 years old, just going through that first breakup. It is a big deal. Like, I really liked this girl, or I really liked this person. And so don't downplay the emotional response. I think it's about teaching our boys because that's just another layer to the work that I do. But that's another layer to the conversation around. We don't allow our boys to feel right. Even in that moment. It's like, do you want to teach your son just to get over it, there's gonna be other girls, and then that carries throughout his whole life. Like that's, that's a dangerous line of thinking. And it's what I adopted for sure. And it did not serve me in my early 20s. And my, and my later teenage years did not serve me, but I do want to teach them that or do we want to teach them? Man that that that hurts? Like, how are you feeling like you sad? Like how? Oh, yeah, like, what? How does it feel in your body, you know, like teaching them to explore and express their emotions. Because once we they're able to do that, then it doesn't become a big deal, because then they've healed whatever it is. And so I think that's really important. And just Yeah, I think I think, if you're in a relationship with someone, which is what a parent is, do, you have a parenting relationship with a son, if you're, if you're in a relationship with your partner, and you're always going to your mates going, geez, I just don't know how I can support my partner more. And rather than going to your partner and going, Hey, what do you need to feel more supported? Like, I guarantee you mates are going to try their best, but I guarantee you're gonna get better answers from your partner. So that's the whole premise. I think, that's the foundation of what I'm trying to do with that program is like, hey, just like here, I'll be that good communicator, I'm a bit older, I've been through it all, I've seen it all, I'll be the good communicator, so that we can smoothen out this process of the parents son relationship. And hopefully, help you guys, as a result, be able to, to understand your sons more. And then as a result of that, be able to parent them from a place of, you know, knowledge and empower empowerment, rather than like, I've got no fucking clue what he's feeling and going through and like, maybe I'll do this or maybe I'll do that. It's like, cool. I'm, I was the guinea pig. I've been parented. I've come out the other side, let me tell you what worked and what didn't work.

Curt Storring 8:16

That's such a cool perspective, man. And I was it's so funny that we're talking about this, because literally this morning, I was thinking about, I always wanted to be the parent, who didn't forget what it felt like to be a kid. Because I had the same sort of experiences like, Dad, weren't you a kid? Like, weren't you my age like 20 something years ago? Like, why have you suddenly forgotten this? And I have taken that into my own parenting being like, Okay, I remember thinking this, so don't lose what it was like to be a 10 year old or a 15 year old or a 20 year old. Because like, we get into this weird relationship, like you're talking about, where as parents, we're just like, Oh, yes, we lay down the law. And everything just follows from that. And it's like, oh, no, there's actually a human being here. Yeah. And I think we get into this weird relationship where we just try and lay down the law. And then there's only one side, and we never even stopped to ask. So maybe that that brings to mind just like, how can we, as parents even start that conversation coming from this? Like, I don't know what's wrong, they never talked to me. Is there a way to sort of get a communication lubrication going in the first place?

Unknown Speaker 9:21

Yeah, I think and again, again, so much of my work is based off of my own experience, and just kind of watching what's going on. But I think one thing that parents do and then especially young men emulate later on, is this like, this wall of like, everything's fine. And so if you're trying to get your son, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep using the word son, but I'm sure that this is a is the same with women. I just daughter, sorry, I just work with boys. So I'm gonna keep using that language for that for the listeners. But if you're continually coming home from work visibly stir Rest. And then your son's like, how's your day at work? And you're like, yeah, it was fine. Like, how's your day at school and your son is visibly stressed from school? Well, he's going to do exactly what you've just shown him to do. So I think one thing that parents, and I'm not sure what the mentality is because again, I'm not a parent, I don't know what the mentality is, as a dad or a mom, if it's all I need to show my kid that everything's okay. I'm not sure but be okay with showing them that things aren't okay. Because if you come home and you're stressed, you go yet. Yes, I'm like, work was a straight A stressful day to day. Thank you for asking me. How was your day? The chances that He's then going to say, yes, school was pretty stressful to actually and this is what happened, it skyrockets because vulnerability breeds vulnerability. And that's no different to parenting. And so I think if you're trying to get the communication process, lubricated, as you said, it's like start with what you can control, you can't control your son's communication, but you can control your own communication. I was I was so fortunate that I got to witness my, my dad's work firsthand. So he was a professional athlete in Australia. And then he was a professional coach. And so I got to go into his work and kind of see his day to day and see how he bounced back and also have conversations around like, it was pretty obvious when he had a bad day, right? His his team lost on the weekend. So it was pretty, like that's not a good weekend. But he, he was really good at two things, one, leaving his work at work, he did a really good job of not bringing that shit home. And I hear through my work like a lot of parents, and a lot of men just struggle with, like, I take it out on my partner, or I take it out on my kids. So really struggle with that pace of like not bringing the work home. But because of the nature of the work, like I was in the change rooms, in the 2006 Grand Finals, or the Super Bowl, or I'm trying to use Canadian terminology, but that they were they made it all the way to the grand final, they lost. And there I was in the change room surrounded by 30 men, some of them crying, you know, my dad's like, holding it together, but you're visibly upset. And so I think too, it's like, the piece that I learned from that was seeing my dad go through hard things, and come out the other side, as well as really, it's really invaluable. And I was so fortunate to see it because of just because of the work that dad did. But remember, when you're telling your sons to go and do hard things, they probably haven't seen you go and do hard things all like what they see as you leave for work. And then they see you come home from work, they have no idea what you've done for nine hours. And so I was really fortunate that where I was like, Oh, I know exactly what my dad does for work. I know exactly how hot he was. I know exactly. Like how he handles a loss on the biggest stage in Australia. Oh, wow. Okay, cool. So I think to, to bring it back to question, right communication was like, I got to see it with my own eyes, how he handled adversity and how he communicated through adversity. And so that was so valuable for me as a young man, too. It was like, great. Now, again, he probably could have done a better job of communicating out his struggles and distress, but I could see it, I could see it was stress. And I could see him kind of hold himself together. And I think as men, again, I'm gonna keep bringing it back to men. But that's a good quality to have is like through the adversity, you are a rock. Now, the other side of it is we do still need to feel what we need to feel. And that's the, the older generation has a lot of resilience and a lot of backbone, but probably can work on their emotional intelligence. Whereas the younger generations and the boys that I'm working with that their emotional intelligence is like, far superior to mine at their age, but their resilience and backbone is. I mean, it's all some of the boys is non existent. So it's just really interesting to see in two, three generations, it's done a complete flip in terms of what men or what boys need to. So that's, that's been really interesting. Through my work. I just wanted to throw that in there.

Curt Storring 14:17

Wow, oh, man, I want to really go deep on that in some way. And I don't know if there's any deeper way to do that than what you just explained. But it reminds me to remind the dads listening, that like it always starts with you. And so parenting is not just this abstract thing that's separate from you, like your kids are the way you are because you are the way you are. And you're the way you are because your dad and your mom are the way they are like it's very obvious. And somehow we forget about this, like, oh, there's something wrong with them. Okay, well, how are you showing up in your life that they can see? And it's like, way more important, the modeling that they see rather than anything you say? Especially when you don't model or say anything? Like that's so ridiculous. You're just modeling this neutral perspective. And I think one of the things you said in there is it the way I heard it well as being in this neutral, os fine, cheapens the experience of life in a way, because you never learn how to be really joyful. And at the same time you never learn how to carry on when something bad happens. And perhaps that's all it is. But maybe I'll just toss it back to you and wonder if there's anything else that you're seeing that is leading to this lack of resilience? And are you actually able in your coaching to help these young men? Establish that and how the heck do we do that? Because I'm continually struggling with that with my own sons, nine, seven, and to maybe not struggle, just very cognizant of it. But how are you seeing young boys and young men adapt to become more resilient in this like, super emotional age?

Unknown Speaker 15:40

Yeah. I mean, I can take this a couple different directions. So I think there's three or four main reasons to the lack of resilience now, the biggest one, and it's an again, I don't like for a lot of men. The problem is the emotional intelligence piece. So I want to be careful with my word, I want to I don't want to add fuel to the fire of Okay, good. I'm not showing my emotions. It's like, no, that's not what I'm trying to say. It's like, it's like a pendulum. So are my my dad's generation my grandfather generation, it was all backbone, all resilience, right? Like, just fucking just get on with it hard enough to toughen up Be a man manner. Now, the, it's swung in a completely different direction, which was like, How do you feel and based on your feelings? That's where we're going to make decisions from? And that's not the that's not at all where you want to be from that, like, it's because these these boys, they're focused on motivation, they're focused on like, why can't I get the desire to do these things? It's like, Well, dude, like, if I only did things based off of what I want to do, I'd still be playing Playstation in my parents like house just kind of cruising because that's what I'd want to do. You know, like, that's an easy life I came from I came from money, I came from a good family, there was no reason for me to move out. Other than, that's what you need to be doing, which is finding meaning in your life. And so that's the biggest reason, the biggest cause for it is our society. So focused on feelings now, which, again, it's the pendulum, right, and I think we'll, in the next 10 or 20 years, we'll we'll find that middle ground where, great, we've got the balance of resilience, we've got the balance of heart, right. And that's where we want to be as a society, that's where we want to be as men. So that's definitely one thing. The second thing is, and this has been around for, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of years, so it's not new. But again, because we've stepped out of resilience and into emotional intelligence, it's definitely just as important now as it's always been, which is this lack of Rites of Passage, this lack of, Hey, you are now a man or you're now on your journey to manhood and taking young boys through a rites of passage. I mentioned to you before we jumped on the podcast like I'm going to be a dad in come July. And I was speaking with my business partners how the day we do this check in we do like a wind challenge lesson for our week and I was going I've lived 27 years as a boy and I'm realizing that now because overnight almost overnight, I've had to go and step into this role of provider protector and father to be and it's like, that's a lot of responsibility. I look to one year ago, less six months ago, right? I was making good money cruising solo, doing my own thing. And then you know, as I said, like, two three months ago, I found out that I'm going to be a father and it's like, oh, wow, okay, okay. What do I have to do now? Okay, well, I got a sword rent I got a sword the bills I got a sword this I've got to take care of my partner's emotional responses because they are warranted and then it's also like, well, what kind of partner? What kind of experience do I want to give my partner like, do I want to be pushing her through this time to be like, Hey, babe, like you need to be resilient and get through this? Like, no, I want her to be like, Hey, you, if you want to lay in bed all day, and that's how you need to show up today. And because you're vomiting are you doing I think they do that. But what does that mean? Well, that means I need to step up more I need to go do the housework. I need to go and make more money. I need to go and do more things and take on more responsibility. So and I vastly look at the last 27 years as a societal thing, a cultural thing around. We have we've demonized integrity. We've demonized honor, we've demonized masculinity. And as a result, we're wondering, like, Well, where are all the masculine man? And it's like, well, you've just demonized all these things for 20 years. It's no and you've and you've propped up You've propped up, I refer to it as like boy psychology, right? You've propped up, like, go and drink and go and sleep around and go and like, just enjoy yourself and have fun. And that's like, and go and act like an idiot on social media, because you'll get 1000s of millions of followers and millions of dollars. It's like we propped up just horrible values and ideals. And so now we've got boys that are basing their decisions off of how they feel, and

Unknown Speaker 20:28

are not willing to take on responsibility. And lack that, as I said, like the the rites of passage into like, Hey, you're now man, what does that mean? This is what it means. And then the third point is just the community aspect of it. We've we've we've lost community we've lost, like, uncles, and friends and neighbors, raising our kids. And so it's now like you're in this singular household, with maybe your grandparents and maybe a couple aunts and uncles that help you raise it. But and then there were the kids are doing is they're looking outside the family unit. And again, they're looking to really shitty role models, like tick tock and Instagram. And the two main platforms now actually Snapchats really big and like the stuff on there, it's just, it's if you wanted to highlight the dumbest people of society, you just have to go in there. But then we value fame, and we value money. So we now value idiocy. And it's, it's, it's just bizarre. So I think it's, it's the community, that rites of passage, that we do things how we feel, and this demonization of, of mask, again, I'm gonna speak to the boy experience, but this demonization of masculinity. And so a lot of strong men have kind of just gone, okay, and I'm looking at the bigger picture of society, I'm now no longer going to show up in society as a strong man, I'm just going to look after my family, and I'm just gonna look after because it's too dangerous for me to step out there. I'm not, I'm not valued anymore. So I'm just going to recede into the shadows. And sometimes it's even worse, it's like, the strong men become weak men, and then we're losing this. And then we've got less role models again. So there's those three, four pieces, I see a reason in the shift between the older guys that I work with through my other business momentum where we work for 35 years, plus, they are all, not all, but majority of them are pretty resilient. And they're trying to tap more into like, my partner doesn't think that I communicate well, and I'm not sure how I feel. And so we work with them in there. And the boys that I work with are very much around like, okay, man, like you don't feel like going to school today. You have to like that's, that's life. Sometimes you have to do these things you don't want to do and, you know, what's, what are you worried about? Let's explore your anxiety. Let's, let's build the confidence piece back up. And then I mean, to make it even more relevant to recently that COVID has just absolutely fucked everyone's kids up because not again, not everyone. That's an absolute but like two years have not gone to school, two years of online learning two years of wearing masks two years of not not being out in the world socializing and failing, at socializing, and then learning how to better socialize like, Man, I feel for the kids, I feel for the kids, I feel for the parents too. Like they had to be parents. They had to be workers, they had to be full time teachers, they had to do all these things I feel for the teachers that had to do online learning, like it's just was not good the last two years for anyone.

Curt Storring 23:37

Yeah, man, thank you for all of that. Is there? Are you seeing things that are motivating these young guys to actually start doing things? Or do you have to like maybe approach them through that emotion, like you just said, like exploring the anxiety? Like, one thing that comes to mind is like, you know, the Jordan Peterson, like, make your bed, or whatever that is, you know, like, set expectations. And that's why we get our kids to do that kind of stuff. You know, you have to make your bed Whoa, why? Like just you got to make your bed because it's one thing that you do every day that you can be expected to do that starts your day off, right, that completes a task. And I expect it of you. And I think that's what I'm hearing in this like loss of initiation is your no expectations. And then, like you mentioned before, I talked about this on a recent podcast, which I'm not sure when it's gonna come out with the mindful Mama, I think it's called. And it's like, on the one hand, men are villainized because by other men typically for having emotions, like, Oh, you're such a wuss, you have feelings. Oh, you must be a woman. And then on the other side, it's like, oh, no, masculinity is actually toxic, bro. So you'd better not be that either. So it's like, what do we do? So you get into this weird middle place where it's like, I'll just do nothing and become like useless and yeah, terrible. So I know that's like two different directions. But yeah, is there anything else that helps boys actually, like do stuff? And, you know, maybe, maybe just go from there. I've got more suggestions after but let's start there.

Unknown Speaker 25:00

I think it's, it's, it's really about it's, it's really about treating them. And I don't I don't even I really don't think it matters what age they're at. I mean, it's really about treating them like an adult in as much a capacity as you can, again, using discernment, right? Don't let them at nine years old go hit the town. Like, let's be smarty. But so I think it's about communicating with them and getting to know your son as an individual and I, or daughter. And so finding what what do they value? Okay, I really like what are their values? Where do they see themselves in five years time? And if they can't see that far ahead, helping them develop that vision of like, hey, hey, dude, like, you do not have to have your whole life figured out. But is there something that you think you would like to do? I think I would like to be an athlete. Great man. Cool. Like, why and really like getting clear and helping them develop their vision, helping them develop their values, because then when you're trying to get your son to make his bed in the morning, and you don't understand any of those things, and you're, you're kind of throwing different reasons as to why you should do it and nothing sticking. Versus Okay, wall made like you want to be a professional basketball player. Okay, well, you do you think LeBron James makes his bed in the morning? Or do you think he just has a messy room and wakes up and leaves his room messy? I probably makes his bed cool. Do we want to be like Lebron James? Or do we want to not be like the brand? I want to be like Lebron James? Yeah, cool. Well, let's start really simple. Let's start with making a bed in the morning. So that's just a way that you can, that's, that's what I do my work. It's like we do these we do these steps we build we figure out their values, we figure out their kind of like, rough five year plan of like, where do you where do you see yourself five years, and then it becomes super easy to motivate them? Because I'm not trying to throw shit against the wall. I'm just saying, Hey, man, like, you've told me that you value discipline. You you valued. I didn't tell you that you value discipline. You told me that. So if you value discipline, what does someone who value discipline? Do? They make their bed in the morning? That's what they do. Cool. See, go and make your bed in the morning then. And it's really about again, we as adults can make that link. before I'm even done with the sentence, you've made the link of like, okay, cool. This is what Dylan's about to say that their kids, they don't make the link they have, especially young boys like what we say all the time, we're like, how, again, we it's, again, similar to what you just said on, we say, don't feel emotions, but also masculinity is toxic. We know that young boys aren't great at navigating their emotions and are slower at developing and communicating than girls. We know this, but we treat them like as soon as they start to kind of grow into man who like they get a little bit of fuzz, they get a little bit tall, they get a deeper voice, we treat them like adults like and it's so bizarre, it's so bizarre to say this, like, Will half the time we're going to treat you like you need to put your hand up in class to go to the bathroom. And the other half of the time, we're going to expect you to know things that we haven't taught you. And it's it's the most bizarre thing to witness on a societal level because it happens across media and across just general society, but also internally in the family dynamic. It's like, you haven't you haven't tapped into this. You haven't taught them this. You haven't educated them this, I was on this men's page. And it's again, I'm really fortunate in the circles that I grew up because sometimes I feel like oh, wow, I thought we'd moved. I thought we move past that. But we haven't. And someone posted like something about, Oh, I saw my son watching porn.

Unknown Speaker 29:00

He's 13 or something like how do I start having conversations about this? And at least we've just in the comments were like, Yeah, good. Like, let him just watch porn. That's how he'll learn about it. And that's for the record. That is the worst advice you could possibly give in that conversation. Like they there's no worse advice to say go and learn about sex through porn. There's the flat out the worst advice I've ever had. I'm like, man, here's like this men's community who do like a lot of good like man and posting and it's awesome to see. And the advice is, like, there's no worse advice to give them that advice. And so I was like, man, okay, cool. Like, I thought we will pass this but we're not. And so it's I don't know where I was going with that. But it's just it's just interesting to see this, oh, that's where I was going with it. Like we need to have those conversations and especially the hard conversations we need to be having because otherwise young boys are going to look to porn. They're going to look to their mate. It's, and if they looked upon and they look to their mates, they don't know what that they're not good areas to go to if you're lucky, they've got good friends. Why do they have good friends, because their parents are having those conversations with those boys. So that's what makes them good friends. So if you want your son to be a good friend to other boys as well, so have those conversations, hey, this is it's uncomfortable. I run a week in my principal keen on like consent and sex and girls and social. And like, it isn't it's an unkind doesn't get more comfortable. The more times you have it, it just, you're just reminded how important these conversations are each time you do because no one's having these conversations. Parents are kind of, again, I'm generalizing. I don't want to bastardize anyone in this situation, but I'm generalizing in terms of some parents are like looking to the school system to educate. The school system is like, well, this isn't really our place to educate on this, this is more of a personal thing. So family should. And then some families are like, Oh, they'll learn it from just out in the ether. Like, man, we need to be learning this, we need to be teaching this stuff directly to them. And back to what John, you know, back to a great cliche, it's like control what you can control, you can control the education piece. Absolutely. You can educate your kids around any topic that you want to. It's just takes you to educate them.

Curt Storring 31:23

Yeah, going back to that poster, you mentioned before, like, bring judgment back to parents like man, like, we can't just go through thinking that oh, you know, it's really hard to parent, I just, I don't know how to hard day I just, I'm just gonna have some wine and watching Netflix, like, that's such a fucking cop out. Like you have to be taking these hard things and doing them. And it's really hard for this generation, I understand as part of the generation that was having children right now, to do this, because we didn't get any of this. You know, we're I like to consider at least you know, around my age ish, as being the one sort of in the middle. You know, we had our parents typically coming from the boomers who were just the resilient type, they sort of went the other way. And then I don't know, there's just this like, disconnect there. And so we're sort of starting, or at least I feel I'm starting from scratch in many ways. And being able to have these conversations are like one of the things that I'm most fearful about, but also like, absolutely committed to doing there is no way that I'm gonna wait till tick tock teaches them anything like, oh, man, and like my oldest is nine. And I'm like, I don't have to worry about like the cell phone question for like four or five years, right? He's got people in his class with cell phones. I'm like, What are you for real? And they're looking at tick tock like, No, we had to talk to him about this, like, hey, just so you know, like, I know, you don't really get this yet. But tick tock is basically evil and slang, like stay off of it, you know. And it's like one of those weird things that is happening earlier and earlier. And I just want to go like way back real quick to this pendulum idea. Because this is like the core of everything that I'm trying to do right now. I started doing this work, probably for similar reason, which is like, I see the guys on one side going like, just be better, bro. Like Alpha lift weights, cool hunt. And on the other side, I saw these like spiritual flow bros who were like, Oh, just be in the moment and let everything be. And it's like, Okay, it's good to access both of those at the right time. But you need, as you said, multiple times. Now, discernment. And so what I've tried to do in my life is just come back to the center of balance, and go, Okay, when do I need to use each and then I feel like Like, I literally feel like a more complete masculine man, now that I have both those pieces of the equation. And one of the things I'm touching on as well, is I can't be everything to my sons, I shouldn't be and you said this, there was uncles, grandparents, men in the community, that would have been in the tribe or in the village or whatever. And I am looking now to what men in my life can influence my sons. And so let's talk now about the importance of a role that you play, which is to be outside the family unit with these tools, mentoring young men. So can you talk about your work in general, and then maybe just on a meta sort of perspective, talk about like, why this is so important to go outside of the family sometimes not that the father shouldn't have, you know, ultimate control and ultimate say, but man, you play an important role. So let's go there.

Unknown Speaker 34:00

Yeah, so So the work that I've been doing for the last two years is through my prints ticking mentoring program, which is for 14 years and up young boys. And it's a 10 week program, one on one mentoring, and it's essentially the foundation and the tools and the knowledge and the education that I wish I had in that period of time from 14 years to again, I work with up to 25. So in that time period, because there's there's a lot going on, there's a there's a lot going on, I think I mentioned to you before the podcast started like, we downplay those experiences, because we understand that the game of life is played on a bigger field. But we only know that because we're adults, and we've we've been through that stage. But as someone who's just like, I've just left that period, I'm 27 years old. It's really it's an A really important period of time, you know, because you're figuring yourself out like you're forging your identity or Who Am I? How do I play out in the larger world. And for a lot of boys, we struggle once. I'm not sure what the Canadian schooling system is like, I'm pretty familiar with the American schooling system. So I imagine it's quite similar. But like, you have so much structure in high school, it's like, you wake up at eight, or you you wake up at seven, you might have like basketball training before school, and then you go to school, and you're like, I know what I'm doing with every minute of my day in school, then you and that works really well. You then leave high school. And again, I'm not sure you have two or three, you've got three or four months between high school ending and in the start of your uni or college experience. And that's a completely It's not nothing like high school. It's like you can't you can choose to go to classes, but you don't have to. You can choose to do it online, you don't have to. And the structure is not really there and no one's falling in high school. You go into class. Okay, guys, everyone hands your homework up. You didn't do homework. All right, here's a detention to go and do your homework this afternoon. You need to just say you didn't do the assignment or we've we've already marked you for that it was due last week, we already marked you. So there's just so much going on in that in that time period. Navigating girls or or navigating the dating scene, navigating in Australia, it's 18 when you can legally start drinking. So now you're navigating alcohol. Definitely drugs like you're definitely never getting drugs. Again, from my experience. It was my first party I went to at 15 The girls were sneaking off into the bathroom. And I was so naive, like my first party had been so naive. I remember, I was trying to get put something to wear. And I was like, I'm not gonna wear jeans. Everyone will be wearing jeans. I'm gonna wear board shorts. I've put my board shorts on and some and some tennis shoes, right up to the party. And I'll never forget this first party and there's what I best date. And I'm walking around and I'm thinking like, cool. I'm standing out when board shorts, like, no one's wearing board shorts or party. Because that's what I valued. I valued being unique. I valued standing out and I was fairly confident kid which is great to my parents credit, they really instilled competence, which side note, I've thought about this a lot. That has to be the number one thing that I will be instilling into my kid is confidence because from a lack of confidence is peer pressure from a lack of confidence in xiety from a lack of confidence lack of you. And the peer pressure piece is big, like if I was so I'm kind of going on a real weird tangent here. I hope you don't mind. But because I was confident. I didn't drink in high school. It was I was like, I'm not going to No, no and I never cared what I didn't care enough about what people other people thought I more care what I thought I'm more cared with my family dynamic thought I had a lot of respect to my parents and how they did that. They did life. And so that really helped me navigate peer pressure where it honestly did not affect me for a lot of areas in my life. I took a lot of like a crash parties and snuck out of the house and but I look back in I go those were risky behaviors, but they fell in the acceptable level of risk. Which I can go on a tangent there as well. But anyway, so the confidence was big. So I've put these shorts on. And this girl I hear talking and she says my name and she's like, Oh, Dylan Dylan's like, looking dealer looks so good. And I like turned around. I'm like, oh, like what do you say she goes nice shoes, dickhead. Just gone. Fuck me. So I've gone and taken my shoes off, and I put them in a corner to walk around the party barefoot for the rest of the day, which was so funny, I'll never forget it.

Unknown Speaker 38:59

So the confidence is big for me though, because I just never fell into the into the peer pressure. So they're navigating all these again and navigating all this stuff at this age and the people again, people downplay the need to be cool. It's, it's not the need to be cool. It's the need to be accepted by your peers. It's the need to belong. So it's it. It looks like you're just trying to be cool. It's changed the language. So oh, man, my son's trying to fit in here. And he's not doing a good job. But that's that's language that you can work with rather than like, stop trying to be cool. You're You're acting like a dickhead. No, it's so much deeper that he's trying to fit in with his peer group. Maybe it's the wrong peer group call address that then, but don't downplay the need for human beings to belong. And so it just navigating a lot so I'm able to come in there as the outside mentor and and communicate with them similar things to what their parents are saying I say this on the cause of parents, it's like, I'm not bringing any wild new ideas to the table. It's just I'm not you guys. And that's the number one thing is I'm not, I'm not his parents. So I remember held like a mini event last year in Melbourne, where I brought parents and kids that I'd worked with to the thing. And one of the dads because we son is like a hot Mac. I've been trying to get my son to wake up early on weekends for years and three weeks into your program. He's waking up early, what did you say? And I go, man, I'm not saying anything different. It's just not coming from you. Because and to your point, before around like, Dad, don't you remember what it was like to be 1015 20 I have just come out of that stage, I have the most vivid memory of it, I've still kind of in that stage with my dad, where as I'm trying to be my own man and step out, especially as he was such a, he was so famous in Australia. So I like my identity piece has been something that I've been working through for a long time because of that, but you don't want to listen to your parents so much to the point that even when they tell you something that you know, is right, you would rather do the opposite, because at least you're making the decision for yourself. And you'll learn something you're not thinking of that way. It's really just mom and dad telling me to do something now I'm gonna go do the opposite. Right? So. And that's not always the case. But it is for, for a lot of instances, in a lot of cases is this desire to, and it's not a desire to do the opposite of your parents. It's a desire to have sovereignty over your own life. And something that you said before, which kind of triggered this thought is your son's nine. When do you start to open him up to adult themes and adult ideas when's like when's like I just be a kid? And when it's like, okay, you you've been a kid for a bit too long. Now. Now it's time to kind of grow up a little bit and the balancing act, and I watch a lot of like, the Viking shows and like the medieval shows, and it's like, the modern era has only really been around for 60 years where kids can be kids until they're 18. Like, I said, I was a boy until 27. Right? That's relatively new. You, you go back. What are we 2020 you go back 100 years, you were working at like eight years old in a fucking horrible environment, shoveling coal at eight. Like you, you know, by 12 You were drinking like? So. This modern idea of when do you start to open your kids up to like bigger themes. It's something that really fascinates me. And I'm looking forward to that challenge. As I as I have my son. It's like, when do I tell him to when I start to to initiate him into manhood? And when's like 1213 Seems like a good time, I think, because that's when they step into high school, at least in Australia. And I tell parents, unlike that once they get to eat in Australia, year seven to year 12. Once they're in year seven, they're now having conversations with the twelves. So anything that a year 12 is privy to porn, sex, girls, drugs, alcohol, the 12 year olds having those conversations now so that's kind of where I go okay. That's a good time to separate it's such an interesting conversation as you brought up it's when this new modern era has kind of really allowed boys to stay boys and girls to stay girls so it's it is interesting that that chat that challenge of when do you open them up to more ideas?

Curt Storring 44:01

Do you have a hard stop at 12? Or 10?

Unknown Speaker 44:04

No, not at all. I can I can keep going and keep going.

Curt Storring 44:07

Okay, just a few more medicine I don't want to go too much farther. But man, this this touched on so much. I've got like a whole page of notes and we're only like 40 minutes and we can

Unknown Speaker 44:17

go as long as I love this conversation. You can keep going. The

Curt Storring 44:21

couple of things that came up one confidence I just want to like reiterate that is absolutely massive. I I'm kind of curious, like why you respected your parents so much. So that's that's one piece I'll come back to in a sec. Acceptance is a huge piece. And for more on that rather than just trying to be cool and ended up being a dickhead. There's a book called brainstorm by Dr. Dan Siegel. He wrote the power of showing up which is perhaps my favorite book on Attachment, parenting, making sure that you have a secure attachment by making sure your children feel safe, seen soothed and therefore secure. And one of the things that came to mind when you're talking about like, oh, he'd listened to anyone bought the phone Are the parents is there's a quote, and I, I'll try and find it to put in the show notes. I'll try to source it can remember who it was. But it was like, when I was 20, I didn't think my father knew anything. Now that I'm 30, I realized how much the bastard learned in the last 10 years, you know, it's not about like, what we have learned at all is just like this, something in us needs us not to be our parents at this particular age. And there's beauty in that, because there's this freedom, there's a creativity, all of these things that happen in adolescence are for a reason. And I think finally, that point, maybe we'll get into this after. So why don't we do this? Let me just pause for a second. Why did you respect your parents? Because I would love to know, how do I get my kids to continue to respect me? And then would love to talk about I forgotten and I'll get to it later. So why did you respect your parents? We'll start there.

Unknown Speaker 45:51

I asked my dad this question. Maybe a year ago, I was like, what, because I was navigating this work. And I was like really trying to get to the bottom. And I was like, Why? Why was the big question. And he my dad's response was, Well, you I always had a strong moral code. I always I always had a strong sense of what was right and what was wrong. So there was that piece that I even I think Jordan Peterson touches on this a lot. It's that you can't really lie to yourself, but because you know, when you're lying to yourself. And so I think I was really uncomfortable with lying to myself at an early age. So that was that I had a strong moral code. Now, why did I have a strong moral code? I think my parents did a good job of standing up for what was right, I have a lot of memories of them having difficult conversations with family members and like, and outside people and like conversations, which maybe were too adult for me at the time, but I definitely didn't think so. And they clearly didn't. And so they kind of instilled in me values. And that was a real big, touchy point in my early childhood was talking about values. Like, again, my dad was a professional athlete, and then a professional coach. And one of the most famous ones in Australia. And so it was it was he he instilled into us at an early age, like, everything you do is your brand. I remember that. Especially when I was in high school. It was like everything you do is your brand. And it reflects back onto the family, not just yourself. And that was because he was famous Right? Like if I and I'll take your fast forward you to when I was 21 years old. I got done for drink driving in Australia. Right so I don't drink driving. tried to hide it. I was like okay guys in Sydney, my parents were in Melbourne as I'm just going to this will just it'll just kind of go away. It's fine. The police told me what to do. They're not lawyers, don't listen to police. Go get a lawyer and other mistake. And then a month later have a court date. I called up hey, I'm pleading guilty. Dylann Roof my court dates tomorrow, hang up. Next day. I'm at work, doing work experience. I get a phone call from my dad. Dylan, did you get done for drunk driving a month ago? And I was like, Yeah, and he's like, we should have lunch. I was like, fuck, hang up. Right. So and it was all in the papers. So it's papers radio articles, I people messaging me like haha, you go down for drink driving unity. And I was like, Oh, wow. So I knew that it like I knew it growing up, I knew your brand's everything. And then I got to 21 good time for driving. And then it was like, now I know. It's like, now I know. And I teach it to the boys like I have a week where I share that story with the guys. And I'm like, Hey, like your brand is like everything that you do is reflected and I link it to social media as well. Because you know, especially when you get to 18. It's like, you look at the average 18 year olds, Instagram. It's just them drinking every weekend. And it's like, what's that say about your brand that that is your brand. And so there was that piece. The final and definitely the most important piece was my parents never asked of me things that they weren't doing. Like they were the they were very good role models. So when they were when I was 14 and going to parties, and they would give me like a gentle reminder of like, okay, don't drink. It wasn't on my radar because I'd never seen them drink if they didn't drink themselves. So they weren't sitting there with a glass of wine every night at dinner saying Dylan don't drink because then cognitively for me that would have been like, well don't drink, but you're drinking. So I don't respect what you're saying. And that's, that's really big. I hate dealing you need to wake up early and go for a run. Dad, you're you're 30 kilos overweight. I'm not gonna go for a run. So I get I think it really ties into your point. And again, I'm 27 Parenting is the hardest job in the world. Right? It's so hard

Unknown Speaker 49:56

but you No one, no one goes into parenting thinking it's gonna be easy. We all know it's the hardest job in the world, everyone tells you, it's really hard. You're, you're helping grow a human being and, and make them acceptable and make them, you know, worthy people to enter society. I just think a lot of people go into parenting thinking, they know that, but then it gets hard and they hand their toddler an iPad for four hours a day. And then they they drink at the end of the day, and they stop working out. It's like, my that was, again, I was really lucky. My dad was a professional athlete, he ran with me and was fitter than me until I was like 15 or 16. And I was I was really fit and dad was fitter. So whenever dad said might get you get your ass off the couch, we're going for a run. It was we're going for a run, he would run with me and my brother every day, he would be in the driveway shooting baskets with me and my brother every day, he would be the one taking the footy out and going through a kick with me every day. So there was sort of respect was, I'm seeing I'm seeing you do it every single day. Who am I to not try to live up to my dad's expectations? Who am I to not try to live up to my dad's bar that he's set. And it was fucking great. It was it was again. There's there was cons to his parenting and there was cons to like what we went through as kids. But definitely the pros were like, Man, I saw it day in day out that he didn't drink that he exercised every day that he came home. He made time for family. We sat at dinner every day as a family. We once a week would go out for coffee before we'd go for breakfast before Primary School. C would take again a he was really fortunate that he could do that. But he made a point of doing it when I went to kindergarten he would be the dad that would he just it was so funny. Like, it was normal for us. But then I look back on my dad. So no, he was the only daddy had come and had a really good relationship with my kindergarten teacher and he just walk into class and be like, Hey, do you need like some help and he'd sit up the back and sharpen pencils or like read us books like three the class books that he was, he was around and then I had my mom who was a stay at home mom, which has been demonized in the feminist community, which is a fucking joke. Because even now as I'm seeing my partner, just be pregnant, like you're growing a human being that's your job. You don't need to do anything else. Let me figure out a way to make more money and do my job. That's my role. Right? So they demonized the stay at home mom and dad was Mum Mum made us lunches. She drove us to school, she took us to training she did the taxes she did the housework, she did fucking plenty. And she was around a lot as well. So we were just really fortunate that we got to, there was no disconnect. There was no like, you need to do this. And we were going in the back of our mind, but you don't do it. It was always like, it was really hard. It was hard. We were like, Fuck mom and dad do it. So I guess we should do it too, right? Even I'd be out at a friend's place and his dad, his parents, their parents would be away or something. And I just would have this knowing of like, I need to tell my parents that there's no adults here. And I need to ask for permission to stay and I'd and knowing that they're probably going to say no. And it was really hard because I'd be having a great time to be me and three mates and three girls, and I'd be like, Oh, fuck this. 123 of us. 123 of them and we're all going to stay over this is some 1516 This is quite like an all my mates like don't call your parent just just tell them that the parents aren't there. Just tell them that Jim is here. Just tell them that Bob's hero and I'd be like, no, like, I just I needed to call my parents like, Hey, Dad, I'm at bauble bars place. Can I stay the night? Are their parents there? No, there's no parents, but we're fine. We're safe. And we, you know, we would get documents. It wasn't like, I just be like, cool. Dad, like, I respect you. And I love you and like I'm on my way home. It was like no, like, Dad, what do you what do you think's gonna happen? Like, I was getting angry, and it was aggressive. But I had the respect to pick up the phone and call him and face that face the music, I guess of knowing I knew I knew he wasn't gonna let me stay. But it was like that sliver of hope maybe. And I couldn't lie. So I think it was the respect came from just seeing them live their doctrine. They just live their doctrine day in day out.

Curt Storring 54:21

Man, that's such a great reminder about what a role model you can be as a father, and the consequences of not being that because we I mean, we see it everywhere. I think like myself included like I am the result of not having exactly the role model that I have that I wished and having to do a lot of that work myself now. And like that's the whole point of this whole project for me is like dads to be a better father. You have to be a better man. But just starts with that. If you want your kid to grow up and do all these things, like how are you teaching him this? And is there a disconnect? I really am so grateful that you shared that because as a powerful story, man, like just seeing how it played He's out in your life. And now it's like actually been very intentionally thought through. And to come back and just like, in a way, honor your parents, and I agree wholeheartedly in the you know the power of stay at home mother and the importance of that that's what my wife does. And it's like, Oh, damn, it's not an easy job. Like, I am so fortunate that I get to go do this and be the provider and all that kind of stuff. But it's just the way that it works. No, there's no, there's no sense arguing that and you know, I'm sure I'll get canceled for even saying that too bad. But man, it's important to notice where your strengths are. And then step into that. Are there any other me

Unknown Speaker 55:33

and my brother was the same tote. So again, I really want to make sure it was like, it was my parents that really set that up, because it wasn't like, I was doing everything. Like I was the one and my brother wasn't it was like, No, my, my little brother was doing the same thing, too. He wasn't drinking he I think he even lasted like, I think I might I started drinking when I was like 17. Again, it's 18 in Australia, but 17 was when I kind of started to drink. And then I think my brother might have even lasted even longer than me like, he was like, we both had that respect. And, and on top of that, I think all parents put your kids in sports, like sports is huge, like Saturday, Sunday. I don't want to drink because I got to play sport tomorrow morning. So but it but it was both because I had teammates that would walk up hungover at like, 1617. And I'm like, Dude, we're playing a game. What are you doing? And I think that was the disconnect that we made my brother didn't have.

Curt Storring 56:28

Yeah, that's so powerful. Man. I love that. The other thing that I was gonna just tie in the thing that I forgot earlier was just that like age to initiation. And I wonder if there's other things that you've noticed that, you know, good fathers of the boys you're working with, do, maybe just close out on this because a few things come to mind for me, and I've shared this story before, but we are I have been reading to my son's books that are like way outside of their, you know, ability to comprehend. So we read the Odyssey by Homer, we read The Hobbit, we're reading Musashi right now, which is a samurai epic, and they're like nine and seven. We've been doing this for last couple years. But man, it opens up their possibility to what it looks like to be a man because then we'll have discussions. What did you learn about being a man from? You know, the whatever the Odysseus in what do you learn from this group of men working together in The Hobbit? And what do you see about, you know, the Way of the Samurai, as he's making the sacrifices? What does that what does it feel like to you? What kind of things do you think they value. And so being able to do things like that are so intentional, because one of the things that I've noticed in this modern age is, you know, even as kids like you and me would have just, we had to watch commercials, we would have had to watch what was on television. So like, she would come on that we just go like, Oh, never even thought of that interesting. And that can lead to just new tangents of thought. And eventually, perhaps it's good down the line, but our kids now like man put Peppa Pig on and his Peppa Pig for 12 hours straight, and they never get anything else, right. And so for me, part of my job as a parent now in this modern age, is to be the one intentionally introducing new ideas. And so I think that's part of my role in initiating them to be like, Look how big the world is, look at all these other amazing man and these figures in history of these, you know, in these books even. And then I'll have to do more things like I just taught my oldest to build a fire the other day, we're getting them into fishing, and we're doing all these things, making sure that they have things to work toward and to grow into. But do anything else come up when it comes to the idea of like, maybe leading up to the age of initiation? Maybe putting expectations on our kids? Have you seen anything work with these young guys as they move through and become sort of young men? To good question.

Unknown Speaker 58:47

I think it's just the importance of male role models for young men, it's, it just comes back to that I don't think there's any magic recipe, I just think it's male role models. And that's nothing against female role models. Like, it's definitely important to have female role models. And I only really realized that in how my relationships with women played out in my 20s, and how I viewed women in my 20s. And I've been working really hard to, to work through that stuff, especially with my partner now and especially with like, I'm gonna have a son, but I want to have more kids, like maybe I'll have a daughter one day. So female role models are really important, but definitely male role models, because every young boy wants to become a young man. It's, it's in our DNA, and I just wrote a, I just wrote a post about it, actually, just a couple of days last week, and it's like, we it's like something that burns. It's like, you get to this age and you're like, I want to be a man and that's I just want to be a man I want to be seen as a man. Like let me be a man and That's the way that as parents can cultivate a positive young boy into a young man is by having positive examples of men around. Again, I grew up in a football club, like I had no shortage of young of male role models. You know, like my, I had some of Australia's best football players babysitting me and my brother when we were young, like, we were so fortunate to have these, these male role models. And I think that's the best way you can support your young boys in this transition transitory processes. And it's not it's it's not a slight on you, as a parent to say, to say that I need people around me, it's actually the sign of a really good parent to humble yourself and step out of your ego and go, like, I've have some really great hope because hopefully, you've got good friends around you, and that you would want your kids to if you don't go get new friends. Like if you don't want your son hanging out your friends, you're surrounding yourself with dickheads. But hopefully, you've got some good friends around you that you can go hey, go spend a day with, with my mate, Brett, right? Go spend a day with him? And what do you want to do with your kid? Do whatever you want, like, go kick the footy with him go. Go take him to the shopping mall, like whatever it is, but just go spend some time with him and chat to him like and if you've got good friends, they're not even gonna ask you what do you want me to do with him? They'll just go that cool, man, let's go. We're gonna go do this for the day. And they're going to take them for the day. And they'll learn things. I'll see how that that man acts, though. They'll pick things up. It's so much about what they do and not about what they say kids don't pay attention to what you say. I don't think so they pay attention to what you do way more than what you say. So that's definitely the number one thing is just getting other role models around.

Curt Storring 1:01:50

That's so good, man. I'm glad that you simplified it there. Because yeah, I'm obviously everyone wants the simple tactics like, oh, yeah, do that. My daily routine. But it just comes back. Like there's no getting away from the guys. You need to be a good role model. And then you need to give your children other good role models and role models, masculine role models. And that's why I love that you're doing what you're doing. And I want to find more men doing this. Because when it comes time for me to send my kids out there to find men like you, like, Yes, I will bring my friends. And yes, I will ask them to be around. And that's one of the most important parts of my own journey recently. It's like I finally started inviting friends into my life. I'm no longer this, you know, Lone Wolf and the kids get to see it, they get to see what it's like to have, like men come into the house and just be jovial and to be like loving and supportive. And so I just I hope that more of the men listening, give this a consideration in terms of finding a mentor, like Dylan finding friends, or uncle's or grandfather's elders, find other people in your community that your kids can learn from because you are not a perfect human being does, you know, at least I'm not I don't know anyone else who is. And so where can you fill in your gaps? invite other man into your children's lives? I'd say that's like, that's the maybe the number one thing to take from this is like be a role model and then find the role models that would support your role role modeling. Is there anything else you want to add? Before we get into like, where people can find you? And what you're definitely,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:19

yeah, definitely, I think it's a really good exercise to get clear on what kind of child you wish your child to become. So like, what, like the way that I, I kind of phrase it in this new program I put together for forging kings, it's like, you go, are you trying to raise a king? Are you trying to raise a pleb? Right, that idea of the peasant in old Roman times, right, like what kind of person are you trying to raise? And so I think 90% of people would be like, Yeah, I'm trying to raise and in their own language, we're trying to raise a son who's integrity driven. And who is in touch with his emotions, you know, is respectful, has, you know, has fun, and is a contributing member to society, right, some form of that some kind of language around that right? Maybe with a few other things thrown in there. So if that's your goal of like, cool, I want my son to be these things, then your parenting should reflect that your parenting should reflect like the nurturing of those traits. And the reason I do raising kings or raising plebs is because back to your point on like, introducing books and introducing outside ideas into your your kids lives is Harry Potter is one of the best examples from an archetype point of view of, of what we should be striving for our sons. Because what does he do? He's He's and think back to the first two books. first two movies is he's breaking a lot of the rules in place. Like he, he's breaking a lot of the rules, school rules. But he's doing it in the purview and through his own discernment of like, well, I need to break these rules. Because if I don't, Lord Voldemort is going to return right? The evil is going to come in the darkness is going to win if I don't break these rules. And so I think within the constraints of parenting, it's like, when you're when your son is taking risks he's going to, are you going to come down really hard on the risks? Or are you going to, like kind of use your own discernment? Okay, what did he do? Okay, he snuck out last night. Okay. Where does that sit? In terms of how I'm trying to raise him what kind of man he's going to become? What are the values that that teaches him based on my response? All these things, again, parenting is really, really difficult. But a great way to simplify it is, you're, you're trying to stop your son from breaking his neck. But it's not a it's not the worst thing if he breaks a couple bones. That's kind of how I think about it. Because we learn by pushing our boundaries we learn by challenging ourselves, we learn by taking risks, it's how human beings learn. And if you are the helicopter parent, and now they're calling it the lawnmower parent, which is you just riding that ride in that ship, is if you're that you're not raising the traits that we're trying to raise your raising again, and that's that son is not going to be very confident. Right? He's if you're, if you're overly protective and overbearing, and not allowing him to step out into the world, he's not going to be you're not setting him up for success. So one of the things, I think it's week one in my 14 kings, it's like, what kind of man are you trying to raise? What kind of son Are you trying to raise? Are you because if you're trying to raise a kid, and you're trying to make a thing, you're gonna have to put up with some disobedience? Like, that's not a bad thing? Maybe maybe you still enforce the boundaries, because you've enforced the boundary. But in the background, you might be gone with your partner, like, Oh, I'm glad he kind of pushed back on that or like, oh, wow, it's great to see him thinking for himself. Because what a school teacher doesn't teach you to think for yourself. So the school system is not in place to create critical thinkers. So how can you do it in your own family dynamic of like, well, I want my son to be able to think for himself, okay? The risk of wanting that is he's going to disagree with me, and he's going to push back and he's going to do these things. So I would look at it as like,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:37

don't let them break their necks. But if he breaks his arm, he's learning. He's out there. He's in, he's in the thing. You know, I remember when I was 12 years old. And I was in a final series for my AFL for my football and I fell off a rugby posts, right? I fell from birth sprained my, my wrist really badly that I couldn't play in the game. And it was like a really important lesson for me to learn. It was like, Dylan, because of your actions, you've cost your team on the weekend. Right? And it was like this, I was like, 10 years old. You can't learn a lesson that that that is that like deep and meaningful without making a mistake without fucking up and going through it. Like I wouldn't have been able to learn, oh, wow, my conduct my actions from three, four days ago and climbing that rugby post and falling off and sprained my wrist that's actually impacting not just myself, but my whole team. And I'm really committed to my team. Like I'm, I'm claimed to be committed to my team, but that's not so. Through the experience, I was able to learn that lesson. Now. My parents saw me climbing up the thing I get down, get off there, what are you doing? Stop being an idiot? Get down, I don't learn that lesson. Now, I don't think you can learn the lesson without going through the experience. So I could be wrong there. But I think it is about learning certain lessons to experience. So I think that's just what I wanted to end on there is what kind of man what kind of son Do you want your son to be? And become and be okay, with? Whatever that pushback is, again, you want him to be resilient? Well, maybe he's going to do some things that you disagree with. Right? So I think that's important to know.

Curt Storring 1:09:24

That was such a great place to end a man I like, here here. You know, I'm over here, like, you know, pumped. I agree with all of that, like, I made a post the other day that was like obedience is not a virtue. To understand that. My wife told me something other day, which is like, most of the problems in Western society can be traced back to a parent telling the child put the stick down. You know, like No, put pick the stick back up. start hitting babe. I mean, don't start hitting people necessarily, but like, do dangerous things. And don't say, Oh, be careful. And we were talking about this the other day, it's like, Ha, what's a better way to say that? Because obviously, they're going to be careful, like they don't want to die. And if you say like, Oh, don't Be careful, you get them to like, oh, fear, don't trust myself. Don't do this don't do that don't risk. And so it's like, can you wonder if we can ask them like, Hey, are you? Are you feeling confident right now? Yeah, it's like what you're doing? Do you feel like me safe? Not the right word. I hate the word safe and the last two years. But why? What are these questions right that we can be asking them to support? So download? I yeah, I would like to listen to that again, myself. Just to like drill that in. Because that's right on. Where can people find you? And please continue on? I love this dude. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:10:30

I was just gonna say to. There's a great exercise that I do with my boys, which is I make them again, because I'm trying, I'm trying to print sticking right, like boy to man, like, think for yourself, take responsibility for yourself. This is where we're trying to get them. I think as parents, we're trying to get them to think for themselves and be responsible. So one thing that's really good exercise to do is actually to make contracts with your sons. So to say, okay, especially when they get older, and they're starting to be like, let me stay up late or let me go out, let me do these things. It's like, okay, we want you to make your bed. Do the dishes every night, make dinner once a week? And be home for dinner every night, even on weekends, right? Here's our expectations of you. What would you like, Okay, I want to be able to go out till 4am on a Friday night. Okay, mate, you're 14 years old. That's not going to happen. But how does midnight sound? Okay, midnight and you're at someone's house, you're not roaming the streets. Okay, that's not bad, right? Because what was his What was that 13 It was maybe a bedtime of nine. So you've given him an extra three hours. Cool. We'll, we'll allow you this on a Friday night, you can go out with your mates until midnight and do your thing. And because we think that we think we've done a good enough job, that we have instilled good values into you that you will make good decisions with the freedom. That's also a really interesting point, too, that I find that parents can say, if you've done a if you are confident in your parenting ability, you will actually feel confident letting your son go with the freedom. Because you're like, Well, I know that I've instilled good things into my son, and I trust my son to make pretty good decisions even when given freedom. Now what happens is, if you're that overband parent, you're not giving them freedom, not giving them freedom, not giving them freedom, maybe they get to 18. And you're like, okay, like you're 18 you're an adult now, then they're gonna freak the fuck out because now they can do anything and then up to 7am at some nightclub, and don't pop and pills, because they're like, What is this? I don't know what this is. I've never had to call sweet like, no. But at 14 years old, you can go okay, here's this agreement, and sign like I think I remember signing it and having these agreements or parents sign that agreement, like, cool, make it official, make it cool. Make it a ritual again to that rites of passage, like make it. Okay, Dylan, we're sitting down, you are agreeing to uphold your end of the bargain. You're going to make your bed every day, you're going to clean the dishes, you're going to make dinner, you're going to do these things. Okay, great. Now as a reward, or as a part of what we will uphold to you is we will drive you to your mates place on a Friday night will pick you up at any time you want. You will call us even if you're past your bedtime, like we you can be out to 12 but if it's two 3am, call us if you need us. Right? Don't be afraid we will not punish you. You will still get your agreements all good up, have a contract and sign it sign it with him. Great that way, when he's not making his bed or not upholding it. It's not personal. It's not an attack on him. It's okay, mate. Let me get this agreement out. Cool. Here it is he right here. We've said you said that you would do these things. Did you do them? No, you didn't. Okay, as a result of that, this is what's going to happen now. And you you lay out even the punishments before the before it happens. Because otherwise it's too emotional. Like think about how poor of a communicator you get in a highly emotional state, and then put yourself in a 14 year old shoes like he's not you know, so if you can create the boundaries and create the structure beforehand, it takes the personal attack out like oh, why are you? Why are you doing this to me? Mom, why are you doing this to me? Dad, it's me. You're doing this to yourself. We said that you had to make your bed. And when you went off to school this morning, you didn't. So as a result, no, you know, whatever the whatever the result is the result is like figure that out. Again, I'm not I'm not a parent that I haven't read all the literature on parenting. But I think that's really I think that's a really handy thing is to create contracts with your kids because it becomes a ritual then he he's playing the same game that you're playing. Because oftentimes parents are playing one game and kids are playing their own. So you want to you want to have some area where you're both playing the same game, you're both playing by the same rules. Right? And then similar, like you have to hold yourself accountable. You're exhausted from work, you're absolutely buggin you can't wait to rip into your dinner and your son goes Hey dad, remember I asked that. I had a party? Can you can you take me to that party now? Time to uphold your God, mate. Let

Unknown Speaker 1:15:09

me just chuck the food in the oven. I'll keep it warm and let's go where's the party? Oh, it's an hour away. Awesome. Great. Like it's it's it's a give and take thing you know again role model. You are agreeing to this thing. Are you a man of your word? Or are you going to make no time exhausted? I just sat down to eat. Can I can I take you after a dad? I told you about this. It's seven o'clock. It's time to go like let's let's go like alright, like, you got to lead from the front. You have to leave and and some like the parents should be taking the high road. They're the parent right? It's hard but you shouldn't be your son shouldn't be the one making concessions for you. Alright Dad, you finish your dinner and then let's go like alright, cool and he's a bit flat because then he gets to the party an hour late and you know the cute girls now already got a guy talking dog. Right? Like you've ruined my night dad. Like, it'll happen like you've it's, it's important to your son, so it should be important to you.

Curt Storring 1:16:15

Dude, I was so good this last 1015 minutes. Just unbelievable. Okay, man, let's, let's wrap it up. I'm gonna ask you to tell us like where to find you. I know. You mentioned a couple of your programs, but just like, give us the list. Yep.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:30

So Instagram. I'm really like, I try to be as active as possible on Instagram. So Dylan, d y l a n.ROOS, R O O S. And, you know, I try to be as accessible as possible too. I'm always checking like the little requests folder and responding to people. So shoot me a message. You'll find all the links like my website on there. But my websites Dylan Roos coaching.com You'll find my program there. As I said, I'm going to do the launch shortly with my forging kings program. And then LinkedIn, Facebook, same Dylan Roos you can find me there and connect with me there as well.

Curt Storring 1:17:08

Man, thank you so much for this I am so pumped like this is the perspective that you're able to offer like outside of the on the father is just incredible. And this is just like, it should be a wake up call. I hope for a lot of guys, and actually a lot of like, hope that there are guys out there who is like, oh, yeah, let's just send my son a deal. And let's go send my son to whoever and just get them more perspective in life. Dude, I'm so grateful that you do what you do and that you shared with us. So thank you for being here.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:35

Man. Right back at you. I'm looking forward to tapping into the dad's network that I've now got and connecting more with you offline and through Instagram and all those sorts of things, man so thank you so much for having me

Curt Storring 1:17:51

that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. It means the world to find out more about everything that we talked about in the episode today, including Show Notes resources and links to subscribe leave a review work with us go to dad.work/pod. That's DAD.WORK/POD. type that into your browser just like a normal URL Dad.Work/Pod to find everything there you need to become a better man, a better partner and a better father. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai