Unknown Speaker 0:00

If you are the foundation of your family, you are the firm footing. They build their lives on. You carry a glorious burden and you never dream of laying it down. You carry it with joy and gratitude. You show up, even when you don't feel like it. You lead, serve, love and protect. You are a father. This is the dead word podcast where men are forged into elite husbands and fathers by learning what it takes to become harder to kill, easier to love and equipped to lead. Get ready to start building the only legacy that truly matters. Your family

Curt Storring 0:59

welcome back to another episode of The dad work podcast. This is Curt Storring, your host and the founder of dad work, guys. Today I'm joined by my friend Jonathan Rios. He is just an incredible man. He's been a blessing in my life. He's a very strong father, strong husband and he's a therapist. He's got a lot of boots on the ground experience and he is just a wise wise dude. So we're gonna go deep today talking about how to get back on top as a great husband during seasons of chaos and negativity, the secret to what women want and need from their husbands how to take the lead and communicating your differences and disagreements with your wife. The journey to becoming a formidable man. Why masculine validation and apprenticeship are vital parts of a good man's journey and the forgiveness formula and how to let go of resentment. You can find Jonathan online and his website thrive.co. That's th R i v.co or his instagram at primal virtues. I'll link all that in the show notes Dad.Work slash podcast. But guys, Jonathan is a former div one athlete and Military Academy graduate. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and a Master's of counseling psychology from Palm Beach, Atlantic University. For the past 18 years, he's worked in the mental health industry, and he works extensively with addicts, performers, veterans stay at home mothers, business professionals and spiritual seekers. specialties include treatment of anxiety, panic disorders, phobias, addictions, and performance barriers. His practical and straightforward approach provides tangible results and skills that help individuals push through the inevitable challenges of life. And guys, I'm just gonna cut into his bio right here. This is a lot of stuff that sounds amazing and super useful. And I know it really blesses his clients and private practice. But I get to see this on like a weekly basis because I talked to him. And it's all legit man, like, he is so so good at this. And he's such a caring, loving soul. That also doesn't take any Bs, and I really appreciate that. But to finish off his bio here he integrated advanced treatment methods such as cognitive behavior therapy, ADP, solution, focused brief therapy, somatic experiencing mindfulness training, breathing, training, and meditation. Man, this guy does it all. It's incredible. So I'm excited for you guys to jump in here with John Rios, on this episode of the deadwood podcast, I guarantee you're gonna learn something, you will be blessed. I have been blessed. And guys, I want to leave you a little reminder here, I'm going to start instituting what we call a little gentleman's agreement. And yes, I am stealing this from one of my favorite podcasts, my first million. But guys, this is a free podcast listened to you don't have to do anything. But I'm out here slaving away making all this content talking to all these amazing guys, putting all the finishing touches on the podcast. It's a lot of work. And so instead of just listening to this for free and getting so much value and changing your life, let's have a little gentleman's agreement here. Okay, if you'd like this podcast, I'm gonna keep doing the work. Okay, I will do that as a favor to you and your family. But you want to give me a little some some in return. You can subscribe on Apple or Spotify. And you can leave a quick review. That would mean the world to me that way. I'm getting a little bit of feedback going like okay, every time I see a review, come in, I am so pumped up. And guys, if you go read the reviews on Apple right now, it's insane. I feel like I don't even know how this is the same podcast because I'm just talking to dudes. I'm trying to do my best here. You guys are telling me it's saving your family. So if it has been impactful for you, please leave a review. That's all you gotta do little gentleman's agreement. You do that I do my part. We continue rolling for years to come and we change the face of the world because every single dad that we impact impacts his family. Every single family is impacted as kids who are impacted they impact a world when they grow up. Guys, this is insane. I'm so pumped up for this. Anyway, long story short gentleman's agreement, get a review, get a subscription to the deadwood podcast and then listen to the rest of this episode, which we're going to start right now with my buddy, John rose. Here we go. Alright guys, welcome back to another episode of the deadwood podcast. And I'm joined again by Jonathan Rios. This is a pleasure, man. There's been only a few guys that I've had back twice. And of course you're one of them because there's just like so much sage wisdom that happens every time we talk. So I appreciate you on that. And I just want to like throw you into the burning furnace right away and To ask a question about how men can lead their wives, through a period of almost negativity nagging, something like that, because let me just set this up for everyone, okay? A lot of the guys I work with, they are not showing up as great husbands, they're not showing up as great men, they've lost the trust of their wives in relationship, and they've abdicated leadership. Okay, and so I have to make sure to tell these guys, at least from my point of view, dude, you gotta get back on top of serving your wife, by leading her but also leading her by serving, and don't even worry about like where she's at right now, because you screwed up, and you got to take full responsibility. And there's also this other side of it, right? Like after the man has bucked up, taking responsibility. He is like, as good as he can get, so to speak, this takes a lot of work. So we're gone, like, we're going down there a little bit. And then the wife is just like, actually sending you might say, and it does become a matter of where does the man set boundaries with how he's willing to be treated in that. And so I'm curious if you have, like, any thoughts around how we, as men, after doing this work, can help to lead our wives into a place of trust into a place of respect into a place of just being with us on the journey, rather than being so stuck in? Like, I still just don't trust him. And even though he's changed, I'm just not going to see it. Does that bring anything up? Man, I might be barking up the wrong tree. I'm just seeing this come up in our groups lately?

Jonathan Rios 6:31

Well, yeah, it's good question. And by the way, good to be back. I didn't get tired. I like you, Kurt. So it's fun. Dude, I would, I was just thinking like, actually, the past few weeks, I've been meeting with a lot of couples at the office. And the pattern, the the kind of underlying pattern that I continually see is when a partner, whether it's male, or female doesn't feel like their partner has their back, they don't feel safe, they don't feel like that their partner is trusting them or that their partner wants them as desire or wants them to win. You know, if you if you have the sense that your partner wants you to win, you tend to feel pretty good. If you have the sense that your partner's really striving to help you feel secure in the relationship. And so we have to come at women through that lens, like at the end of the day, they're just human like we are, they want to know that you want them, they want to know that you've got their back, they want to know that you support them that you're you're their biggest fan. And there's all kinds of ways that we violate the trust, safety and security of the relational dynamic. We might even die, we might violate it through our facial expression. So neuro linguists basically say this, that human communication breaks down to 55% physiology, which would be things like eye contact, breath, control, body posture, stuff like that body language is actually 38% tonality. So I love you, I told you, I love you. I'm saying I love you. But my tone is a little bit hostile. Right? So our words and words, by the way, 7%. So 7% 30% 55% If those aren't in convergence, if those aren't aligned, the communication doesn't land. It doesn't hit the target. Right? So yeah, man, I think if we could if you could pull back the curtain and just go okay, at a base level. All women are wanting trust, safety and security. They're wanting to know you're their biggest fan? Are you communicating that? How are you communicating that? Watch your facial expressions? Where's your tone? What kinds of words are you using? In the moment? Obviously, this can get difficult because emotions get inflamed, but I've just found in my life, and in my marriage, I'll even have to catch myself with my hostile tone and go Hold on a second. The tone is what I'm using the right words in my body postures, alright, with my tones off. I've got to make sure those three categories are in alignment. Maybe that'll help.

Curt Storring 9:14

Yeah, no, that's really good man. And I think so much of this comes down to communication like this, why it's such a big thing when I talk to guys about it's because like, you could either open your mouth and start fights every single time or you could build like a massively intimate trusting relationship with that communication. Have you seen this be the case, where partners are kind of like, I don't know, in the swamp together, they're kind of just like being mediocre is what I would probably say. One of them starts taking steps to bettering him or herself and the other one doesn't. Is there something that you've seen work, maybe especially for the dads listening to, like, can listen to at work, you know, doing all this stuff and go to the primal course I'm good. And yet, like my wife's just kind of lagging behind because I get this complaint fairly frequently. Is there a way that we can Bring her along, using the communication or whatever. But like this is a sensitive subject because I can't go to my wife and be like, Hey, you suck. Can you stop sucking? Like what's the best way for a guy to bring his wife along for the journey?

Jonathan Rios 10:14

Well, I'll talk personally. It's you don't you guys don't need to go study this out. But just just the basic knowledge. One of the popular Personality Typing systems is called the Enneagram. And it talks to basic different personality styles and temperaments. And on that scale my wife is, is what you would call the peacemaker. So for her, one of her main objectives in life is to just maintain the peace. Right? And meaning, if there's chaos around, she wants to go take a nap. If there's if it's been a long day, she wants to just be, you know, cuddled up with a good book and a hot cup of tea and just away from the crazy. I however, on the personality scale, I'm more of a, it's what you would call a challenger. So I like and I lust for intensity. I like intense things. So imagine you got someone who likes intensity and someone who likes peace, and you try to get them together. And it seems like an odd situation. What I've had what I've had to tweak and learn about my wife is her main goal in life is to just it's Hakuna Matata like peace, right? No worries, I just want no worries. But she needs to be invited into things. So for example, if we're going we're trying to decide on where we want to go on vacation. I before I maybe pitch vie 10 ideas, I have to first go hey, bed, before I give you my two cents on where I think we should, what are you? What are your ideas, and I have to kind of like, coax that and invite her into it so that she doesn't feel dominated. Right? So that's one way, I also have to notice that maybe with my temperament, it can easily swallow her up. And I have to give her a little bit of wiggle room to decide what she's thinking or feeling rather than making demands that she answer me in the moment. So I have to give a little bit of space for that. Yeah, so those are, those are a couple of ways that I would do it. Because my wife is that Peacemaker type. She's not I would say she's not Intuit agree with me, she's not as ambitious as I am. She doesn't necessarily have these short term long term objectives. She just wants the peace. That's her objective. And I'm like, Dude, I want to take I want to take the hill. You know, I want to I want to grow, I want to blow up financially, physically, all that stuff. I want to just get better. What she's not necessarily she loves that about me. But that's not her life goal or whatever. So I have to oftentimes be like, Babe, like, you know, what's your next What do you think that a good goal for you would be over the next six months, I have to like, talk it out with her and just challenge her a little bit. But I don't force it on her. I just live it. I live it in my day to day life. And then I coax her into conversation that might evoke in her maybe something she's actually interested in that she hadn't tapped into yet.

Curt Storring 13:12

Hmm, Dude, that's awesome. Okay, so you're like, I hear from that, that you're the one leading, you're like in it with her. You're trying to be in there, you're having the communications first not waiting for it not complaining, not resenting her because she's not there with you. You're the one bring it to her and then being respectful for who you know she is. And then, like you said, just like living by example. And that's so funny, because that's what I found, too is I have tried, obviously, along the way to be like, Hey, babe, you should read this book and like, do it exactly how I do it. Because it works. And like, why don't you just do that? And then I got upset. And I was like, Man, this doesn't work. So what do I do? And then was like, Oh, I realized that I could just be excited about it, and share it with her and then kind of like, leave it like, Babe this world. I'm so excited. Like this particular book, this thing, this idea. And it's amazing. I got this result, and then drop it. And then like a few months later, a few weeks later be like, oh, yeah, that thing you said a while ago. I think I did that. And it works. I'm like, Oh, no way. That's incredible. So I really liked I just like living it and being excited about stuff like that.

Jonathan Rios 14:11

Here's one. Here's one thing occurred recently, like my wife didn't grow up playing sports or anything. She I mean, she was an outdoors girl, but she didn't wasn't ever competitive. And so like working out consistently for her was never really a like a big commitment. I mean, she's fit naturally. She's one of those naturally fit people. But, you know, recently she actually brought up she's like, Hey, I was thinking about this, this local gym. It's like this all female gym and it's higher end more expensive. And I was like, Dude, you should yeah, you should definitely cuz she'd never bring stuff up. Like I was like, Yeah, you should definitely jump into that. So I've been like her biggest fan on that and she jumped in and she's loving it and she's got that was like six months ago, and now she's got this tribe. And she's all she's like, her motivation levels have really spiked in a good direction because she's around other females are holding her accountable. And so this is a new thing for her. You and I would go well, yeah, DOE like we've been doing that. But like, she's not me and I don't she doesn't have my temperament.

Curt Storring 15:12

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point, man. And that's I've been finding that's hard to find is like a local group of women that supports one another like that. And maybe it's just a season of life. We're in like, you know, we got kids ranging from 10 to zero, basically. And it'll come but yeah, that's an interesting idea that I might have to bring my wife as well as like, what's funny, Jim? Thanks for that. Dude. What do you anything last on this, because I'm gonna move on to a couple other things. But if you've got any other wisdom to drop, we can we can drop that here. Now. You're good. You're good. Okay, so I had this question on a recent podcast, as well. And it was like, how do we raise strong children? I've got boys and I know you've got girls. So like, maybe we'll meet in the middle somewhere and figured out how this all works together. But like, Dude, I want my kids to be like Savage Dragon slayers. I want them to be like I say, hard to kill, easy to love, and equipped to lead like this balanced masculine. In my life. I am very grateful. And only by the grace of God, have I come to the point where like, Oh, dude, I figured it out. And I say that very humbly. I know. There's a lot more to go a lot more trials and tribulations to go. But I feel like me now. I know who I am. I know where I'm going. I know what I want. I know what I like. And I'm cool rolling with that, rather than being like, oh, no, Woe is me. This is so hard, which I felt for a long time. Now, I always say like, the greatest gifts for me grew out of the gardens of my deepest wounds. But like, dude, how am I supposed to raise up my sons without them giving them like the deepest suffering imaginable? Which is risky, because a lot of guys who suffer in childhood or whatever, they don't turn out like me, they don't turn out like, you know, like you they go off the deep end, and get addicted and stuff like that. I'm sure you see that in your practice all the time. So can you talk a little bit about like, what you think about, like, I don't know, hardship, raising strong boys without needing them to have this really dangerous, pointless suffering, because I think suffering and meaningful suffering is very important. But like, there's a huge nuance here. Do I don't know if you have anything to say on this, though?

Jonathan Rios 17:12

Yeah. Well, I actually think you remember a while back, you'd mentioned a really formative book for you was the Father by God book by John Eldridge, where he maps out the stages of masculine development. And you know, there's also the other book came warrior sage magician by Gillette, right. I think Robert Gillette, who maps out those archetypes. But so if you guys want to go read those books, I would highly recommend that what those books reveal, especially the fathered by God is basically says, Hey, you want your kid to turn out right? You want to you want to build a formidable man? Well, men are designed to go through these stages. And then he starts by saying, All men require initiation. So the idea of building strong boys is that they, they go through a process, kind of like building a house brick upon brick upon brick, and at the end of the day, and then you've got a castle. But at any point, those those stages can be stunted or wounded. And we have to then go back and kind of go back into that phase and make some tweaks. So let's, so the first stage would be boyhood, which some psychologists posit is from roughly the age of zero to 12. And that in that period, the primary question the boys asking is, am I am I the desired beloved son of my father? Am I do you want me dad? Look at me. Look how strong I am. Look how fast I can run down. Look how strong I am. When I wrestle you. I made your lip bloody look how strong I am. You know? And just the hugs and just the affirmation. Right? He's looking for that he doesn't have language for that. But that's, that's what a lot of that showing offs about you know, so that's the, you got to hit that you got to make sure your son knows emphatically Hey, son, you are my delight. I actually really like you. And I've got your back, I will protect you and I will be I will agree to keep teaching you. So then in Phase a, he moves into the what some people call the cowboy or the Ranger stage, and the Ranger stage is where he starts to ask a slightly different question. And that's an if we could all relate to this is do I have what it takes? Am I like how far can I really go here? And that's where you, the Ranger, the cowboy starts to go into the woods with his buddies, and he's building forts. And he's doing sleepovers. And he's learning he's going camping, and he's venturing. He's venturing right and sometimes this even looks like Arctic. I had a buddy tell me he used to just at this stage, he would literally just go hitchhike for like the entire day and then see if he could just get back. So it's like, what's that about? Well, he wants adventure. He wants to know, Can I do this? You know, sounds silly. But but it's a real thing, right? And if a guy never really, really answers that question, then he's always out to prove himself. He's always out to go. Well, now I gotta prove that I've got what it takes, rather than being settled that he has what it takes. Or he gets real passive because he gets the message. I don't have what it takes. So then he gets real passive, and that's a lot of men. Before I get to the next day, do you do you want to chime in? I saw you make a weird face.

Curt Storring 20:25

Yeah, dude, that was my 95% facial expression that got that across without saying any words. Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about like, what that looks like. Because I think like, so many guys will probably be convicted to realize like, oh, I don't know, if I have what it takes my dad never, like answer that question. What does it look like in man's life when he is looking for that elsewhere? Because I know there's a bunch of stuff that guys do to try to fill that in, that never actually works. So maybe like, just give us a couple of quick examples of the guy who's looking for this to be answered in the guy who's like, Man, I'm just like, stopped looking for it. Because I don't have it. I can guys tell this in their lives.

Jonathan Rios 21:02

For me, man, I think you got to come at it in two different ways. One is you need you won't know you have what it takes unless you go through some testing unless you go through some trial unless you unless you go hitchhiking. And you actually make it back. You didn't die, right? You were innovative and creative, and you figured it out. And you're like, holy crap, okay, maybe I'll go twice as far next time. And you build upon that, that relative success, right? For me, it was go off to train with the VMI and see if I could actually do it, see if I could actually make it see if I could outlast the other people. And I was able to do that. And that was formative for me. And I was able to look in the mirror, you hell yeah, I frickin did this, you know. But then the second component is where you that's beautiful, we need that. But we also, look, man, we also fundamentally need affirmation from our fathers, or from those that might play that role. And at a deeper level, we need the affirmation of our Heavenly Father, we need which can get why even when I say that, some people get really weird about spirituality and about faith statements like that. But if there is a God, and He is real, he has like a design for all of his creatures. There's a method to the madness, there's a, there's a way that works in a way that doesn't work. And you know, you see, you see the affirmation of God, the Father affirms Jesus Christ, right when Jesus goes public, and a voice appears from heaven, and he says, Behold, my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased. That's straight up just validation. like, Yo, I got your back. You're my beloved Son, I affirm you, even before he really performed any miracles now, but we need that. And, you know, I remember, I've had this happen so many times in different ways, and a lot of men habit, but I remember playing for a team years ago, and one of my coaches at the time was a guy named Ian bishop. He was a legend for Manchester City. You can look up highlight videos of Elan II and really great player a really good dude. But I remember Ian pulled me aside one time, just one on one. And he looked me dead in the eyes with his British accent. He says, If I had half the speed, and creativity that you did the attacking creativity, I would have been twice the player that I was. And for coming from in that blew me away, bro, you should have seen me play the rest of the season. I was like, I was unstoppable. Because a man that I esteemed esteemed me. Right. So that a woman although the validation of a woman is amazing, and especially when you're married, and with the love of your life, the affirmation validations necessary, but masculine, validations different it hits different. So yeah, those are the two things man, I think that if we want to know we have what it takes, you can't know you have what it takes by just memorizing some quotes. You can't know you have what it takes by watching some YouTube videos and getting that surface knowledge you have to then go try stuff, and you have to fail at it a little bit until you succeed until you know you're formidable. And then you also need that masculine validation. And if you're a lone ranger, you're never going to get that you won't even know you need it.

Curt Storring 24:34

Yes, dude. Okay, so that's really useful. Thank you for all that. Let's say, a guy's like, Okay, I'm like, I'm ready for this. I'm gonna go out in the world and do the thing because that's where it all happens. You have to be in the arena. Where do you get this affirmation if you don't have a father if you don't have men around you? And I guess the answer is, go get some good men around you. But for me like this book, you reference it was very validating to finally have that what I thought was a father sized hole It was actually God sized hole in my life. And I was like, oh, man, I finally got that validation, which is so real. In the Christian faith, for me at least. So is there any way you guys can like, look for this? Is it doing primal course is a men's group? Is it church like working guys go and then we'll get back on track to the stages of a man's life?

Jonathan Rios 25:19

Yeah, well, so you can't First off, you can't wait, you can't just wait around. You can't just go well, you know that I'll get to that. Or it'll, it'll, it'll happen eventually. That's bullshit. That you have to let that go. If you want to be forged, you have to seek out the furnace, you have to seek out men who might even be a little bit intimidating for you. Which is see, if you want to grow, you gotta get a comfort zone. And that's so man, typically, you know, I'll speak to myself. We don't like doing things that we're not good at. So we avoid stuff like that. We don't ever say that. But generally speaking, I'm not gonna go shoot shoot hoops with guys who are good at basketball, if I'm like, I don't really play basketball, like, why would I do that. But they're my buddies. And they all hang out Monday nights, but I never go because I feel like Dude, I'm just clumsy. And so we miss out on some things, because we maybe we could garner some skills, if we would just step out. So I would say you got to step out. Part of it is, dude, and you might even just do it seasonally. So you might go just join a martial arts gym for 90 days. And just go, I'm gonna set myself a little challenge here and just really put myself out there as like as a little a test as a little experiential test. You might join a running club, you might join the cross, do a join the Tough Mudder and get two buddies to train with you. I don't, there's a lot of creative ways to do this. Just as long as the masculine friendships are beautiful, but there's different types of friendships, there's mentorship, there's sages, there's kings, there's brothers, who are fellow warriors, and they all have something to offer. But if we're never giving ourselves to that, which a lot of us don't know that we don't know that we need it. Why would we go for it? If we don't know that we need it? I would say look in the mirror and notice that you sometimes feel unfinished. You sometimes feel like holy shit, I have a lot of questions. And life's really hard. Why can't I figure this out? And it's because you're meant for masculine apprenticeship. Like there are kings and sages who can show you, Hey, don't do it like this, do it like this, Hey, that's not going to make you money. But this will make you money. Hey, that's not going to help your marriage, but this will help your marriage. Right? So dude, look, man, I mean, we're all we're all in the process here. So I'm not I haven't like, I'm not at the end of this thing. But I have had a lot of those kings and sages and coaches and mentors that have, you know, been a part of my life spoke into my life. So I can attest to the, the almost mysterious happening. When when a man that you esteem validates you what it does to your soul is hard to articulate. But it's settled. It can settle a few things.

Curt Storring 28:18

Yeah, yeah, that's well said, man, thank you for giving a little bit more context on that. Is it useful to go back and finish off the like the roles going from the boy to the cowboy? And then everything else after that?

Jonathan Rios 28:30

Yeah, I can I can barrel through that. The the main thing that you guys need to really understand about that is that how do you build out like a house, if you ever watched construction, you lay your foundation, the foundation is essential. Right? But then and then you lay your framing and then your drywall and then your roof and all your windows? And then the aesthetics, there's like a process of building you don't start what you don't lay the foundation last. Right? You don't put the door in second. You know, there's like a method to it. Well, men to be a formidable man, it's brick upon brick. So if if we find that we are consistently insecure, consistently, lack confidence, consistently feel really angry and confused. It's probably because at some point in one of those stages, like we didn't, we got wounded or we didn't get the lesson. We didn't it didn't take root. Right. So it's like if you skip third through fifth grade, and then you land in sixth grade, you're like, oh, shit, I don't this math is like, this is beyond me. I feel I like fish on water. Well, we probably got a backup. Right? So the next stage there, and I'll just be quick is just it's the, the warrior stage. Right and the warrior stage is really beautiful. And the question is, what's my mission? What's my battle like? What's my Hill? And I love this. There's this Interview I heard by the guy who directed Braveheart, Dr. Randall Wallace. And he said, People constantly ask him, Why do you always make war movies? And he said, I don't write war movies. I write love stories. Because I'm always asking the question, what is the man love so much, he's willing to die for it. And so if you know Bret Hart, it's, it's a warrior poet movie, you know, it's a lover warrior movie. And so that's the warrior stages. What is my battle? What am I willing to die for? What's the transcendent mission and cause that God has designed for me? And to try to tackle that, to find that? To answer that, and if you don't have like a wise Brotherhood or sage or king to when you hit hard times as a warrior, the message you get is that dude, you don't have a mission, or you don't have a design. There is no transcendent cause, or you're not a formidable warrior at all. Because you hit walls and you fail, and you think, well, then I guess I'm not. I'm not a warrior. Right? So then you got a brother who goes Nah, bro. No, no, no, no, you're misreading that you are a warrior. Write the book of Exodus says God is a warrior, and were made in the imago day. So the next stage is the lover stage. And this is the one that used to confuse me the most. Because I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I grew up as as a romantic type. Fact, I liked sports way more than I liked girls till I was about 19. If you laid before me a good soccer game, or a woman, I'd like to talk to the ladies later. So the war the lover stage is simply this. It's when a man starts to really wake and awaken to beauty. Not just the feminine beauty, but like the beauty of a good film and what it evokes inside of you. Like why do I feel things when I'm watching this movie? We use it that hits you in a in a different way. When you climb a mountain, and you're just your insides are screaming with exhilaration when you free dive with sea turtles, and sharks, and manatees and you're just totally absorbed by the beauty, and you feel very alive. That's beauty. And then there's also the wakening to romance and that of the female. But the beauty things bigger than females. It's like a female can't totally encompass beauty. She's She represents it. She doesn't she's not the totality of beauty. If you're if a man doesn't know that he'll look for all the beauty and a woman and she'll never be able to fill that. That's unfair. Right? So then the next stage is the the king stage. And the main emphasis in the king stage is you are now been through you've been through some battles. You've learned beauty. You've been the cowboy, the Ranger, you've had these adventures, you've learned you've got what it takes. And now you're king and and now it's your time to rule. Because you have your character has been forged and tested, you have been found worthy to wear the crown. So now that maybe you're ruling in a business, are you ruling in a household? Are you really going to community or a church or you're on a you're an executive at a for a nonprofit? There's different ways that this might manifest. And the key really the key question is Do the people under your rule? Are they flourishing? Like do they are they being depleted? Or are they flourishing? Right? And, and the king eventually transition into the sage and the sage is that older, wiser, like Gandalf and Lord of the Rings, who who was compassionate full of insight. Doesn't overspeed but he always has like just what you need when you need it. And the sage relinquishes the duties of a king and passes those on to the next generation of kings. Right? A bad a bad sage will hold on to the king Kingdom instead of passing it on. Right, right. So these are quick and dirty analysis, but also do that we're meant to grow into that. But you know, at any, like I said, at any point, if you never felt like a lot of people do follow this generation, right? So a lot of guys never really felt like a loved son. They still don't. And they're 50. And so that's where, well now you're 50 like how am I gonna redo my childhood? You can't redo your childhood. That's where the that's where God comes in. And he's like, look, look, the the fathers on Earth are just a shadow type. I'm your creator and I can heal this stuff in you. But you got to come and you start to look at spirituality like constant initiation, rather than humdrum boring services. That's how I that's what's helped me like every day of my life is like, God's initiating me. God's forging me God. is growing me. And eventually I will get to the sage stage. But sometimes I sense the boy in me. And sometimes I sense the Ranger and man, sometimes I sense the king in me. Right? And so yeah, there is some overlap there. But that's the basic,

Curt Storring 35:15

dude, that's super helpful. That was very, very nice again, because it's so important for both as we raise our sons, but like the secret here, like all things, especially with being a father, is it applies to you too. Like, where in your journey if you're listening to this, not get listen. And that leads me to the second or one of the other questions I had on here, which we'll jump into now is like, what is the role of looking back? Because I thought for the longest time, and if guys have been listening to this podcast for the entire, you know, year and a half, it's been live, dude, things change. Like I used to think you just had to like be in your feelings become an emotional master only, and that you had to look back forever to get back to this like perfect little child that was unspoiled by parents and all the rest of that bullcrap. Right. And now, I see a little bit more clearly in my own life, and the men that I work with. It's like, Dude, we are forging ahead. Like you said, we're in the field of battle, doing the actual battle. And sometimes we like smash up against a wall. And I think what I've noticed is a lot of those walls, not all of them, but a lot of them are actually like garbage from the past that we don't really even know what's going on there. And so I found, at least in my life, it's good to like, have a quick look back, deal with that clear the roadblock, and then get back to moving forward. So as you're talking about, like, we might need to back up in this process of going from sort of the boy to the sage, what is the like, right role of looking back dealing with stuff and then moving forward to I don't know, if you wanna say heal, but like, become that formidable man that you're talking about?

Jonathan Rios 36:48

Yeah, it made me think of, there's a the the old prophet Jeremiah, there's a text for he says, It's God's speaking actually, it's in the book of Jeremiah. And God says, stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths. And ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. So there's this idea that there are ancient paths, there's a way that's charted for us, and ancient things are often forgotten. You know, we don't even know what Stonehenge is really about. Right? We know, it was something probably really amazing. But we don't know what it was really meant for. We think we know but we don't. Well, God has ancient paths. And just to me, man, it seems even as I'm talking, it seems a little bit ridiculous to me that a human would think that they could just by looking deeply inside could discover the totality of their design without having to involve the Creator. It's like an ant trying to understand his functions like yo, like, that ain't as good luck with that. Right? This is the whole idea of spirituality is we are meant to engage and live with, and commune with the Creator at all times. And that doesn't have to be a weird thing. It's just kind of like, you breathe in you breathe out. And God's here, God's always here. And, and when hard times come, we don't misinterpret that, to think that God has forgotten us to think that, that God doesn't see. That's a whole nother discussion. But yeah, so as far as like looking back, the only reason that I even care to look back, is if my past is hindering my present or hindering my future. If it isn't, then I'm really probably not going to spend a ton of time on it. But if you notice, you keep getting tripped up, then you have to go you'd be an idiot to not go uncover the past. uncover those old wounds. Because if you don't listen, if you don't acknowledge a wound, you can't heal it. Right? If you don't acknowledge that you got a giant hangnail, let's turn it again. It's going gangrene, you know, like, you're done. You're screwed. So yeah, man, I when it comes to the way I facilitate therapy, we don't we only spend time on the past where necessary for the purpose of healing that that area, and then it's all about the present and moving into the future. And I think God is a God of the present. And, and I think we're meant to have a vision for the future without a vision that people will perish.

Curt Storring 39:45

That's awesome. Thank you for that. I'm glad you talked about your, like the practice in that too, because that's what I was wondering, as well. Like I've never done therapy personally. I know a lot of people have I know it's like extremely useful for most people that I've talked to if It's not all about just what you said, like just the past. Like, let's keep going deeper and going deeper and going deeper. And that's where it dude, that's where I was in for so long. And I was like, looking for these things. It was his never ending spiral, this infinite regress, basically. And it didn't get me anywhere. It like opened my eyes to certain things. And it was the path that God had me on to get to where I am today. But dude, like so much time was wasted, like looking behind every little rock and shrub. And I realized, like, dude, most of those are just rocks and shrubs. They don't mean anything. They're not like this thing that's holding me down. I just needed to put my like my head forward to gaze forward, put one foot in front of the other, and not look back as I started plowing in my field. And that's the thing for me that did it. And every once in a while, I'm like, Why do I keep yelling about that same thing. And I've got my guys doing like trigger journals. So if something keeps coming up, they're gonna catch in their journal, and they're gonna see like, Oh, here's a category. When I am talked over, I feel disrespected that reminds me of this thing. Dude, I gotta forgive my dad. And then you do the thing. And then you start moving forward, like, is that? Is that a reasonable way to use the past? You look at it, figure it out, wonder why you hurt, maybe make some forgiveness? And then get back to work in the present? Like, is there anything more to add there?

Jonathan Rios 41:16

The thing you're using the word forgiveness, in my view, forgiveness, or unforgiveness is probably the number one issue that causes complications for people in therapy. We tend to not think we're unforgiving people. But we have these resentments. We have these, these offenses that we're holding against other people that we didn't we, we kind of put on a shelf, but they still live in us. Right. And the recipe for resentment is, you know, when when someone blocks my goal, or when I when I say yes to someone, but I really mean no. And I do it anyways, that's the recipe for resentment. When I didn't when I don't get my way when when my expectations aren't met. If I can't relinquish that, I have resentment and unforgiveness will form. So this is this Look, man, people complicate forgiveness. It's not that complicated. Here's a three step process, I would, I would recommend to all the guys that are listening because look, you're human offenses are going to come people are gonna hurt you, man, like I've been hurt, you've been hurt. This is planet Earth. You're not a special person, because you went through that, that sucks. I'm sorry for you. But let's get through it. So here's how you would go through it. Let's pick a pick an event the event is your father or your neighbor said or did something to you, okay, there's the event, you would write out the event. My neighbor filed a lawsuit against me, which actually happened to me, filed a lawsuit against me. And that felt really horrible, and I felt threatened and, and just didn't even want to live in that same house and felt scared and all that. Okay, so that's the feeling. So you write the event then you feeling attached to I felt scared, I felt angry. I felt disgusted. Right? I felt sad because I thought we were friends. And apparently, that went out the window. Alright, so now you've got the event, the feeling and the last thing you have is, once you've sat with that you've got really clear on it. That means you own it, you'd probably need to tell at least one other person not to bad mouth or slander that person but just tick as an act of confession. All right, once you've done that, and if there's no one around, and it's like just a highly personal thing, then you confess to God, right? Hey, I'm really struggling with this person. They did X and I felt this way about it. And I freaking I've have rage about this. And it's been tripping me up. That one of the primary reasons people don't even want to go towards forgiveness is because they think it means letting people off the hook. And that's where they miss it. Every time I forgive somebody. I'm not saying what they did was okay. I'm unhooking myself. I'm no longer allowing them to live in my mind because I want freedom. I'm not saying that we can be we need to be best friends. I'm not saying that you need to hug and make up reconciliations, a whole different thing that takes two people to both want it. The last step this is the, to me probably the most crucial step is I would I would write out and audibly make a declaration. And I would say I have my own volition willfully choose to forgive Tom for suing me, for slandering me for violating and betraying the friendship and for all the little gory details that they did I forgive them. And not only that, I choose of my own freewill to release them. I choose to to not seek vengeance. Right. And in fact, I bless them and then guard them Like releasing them into the wind. And I bless them. This doesn't mean I want to be best friends, it doesn't mean that what they did was okay. But I'm audibly doing it. Because life and death are in the power of the tongue, your declarations, there's a proverb that says from the mouth, the heart speaks. So when you declare it, even though you don't feel it, you're checking your will. And you're doing something good and righteous. And the feelings will come later, we wait to the field, we're like, Well, I'm not gonna feel tight, I'm not gonna forget till I feel, well, you'll never forgive. So you make the volitional act, you declare it, and see you own it, you didn't side skirt, you you actually said what they did, you didn't just pretend. And this doesn't mean you're even saying it to that person, oftentimes saying this to those people there, they don't want to hear it, they don't give a shit. It would be more risky for you to do that. So you got to be careful with that. That's why I'm saying do this in private. I forgive people all the time in private, they never even know that I needed to forgive them. And to me, I'd take a look. I mean, I gosh, I mean, the level of forgiveness that I've had to execute is probably minimal compared to some of you listeners. So I'm not saying that it's easy. What I am saying is, is necessary. Yeah, that's the hurdle. Because the resentment is like, it's like a kidney stone stuck inside of you. And it needs to be discharged.

Curt Storring 46:33

Man, do the timings a bit off just so you know, I'm not like being weird about this. I can't see you anymore. So I'm just like, that when you like when there's a gap. I'm not like cutting you off. So anyway, if it's a bit awkward in timing, that's why the a couple of things came to mind there. First of all, like, dude, the forgiveness formula, this is incredible. I remember asking my grandfather, like, a couple years ago, and I was like, Well, what is forgiveness? Like? Why? Why would I have to be the one to give up? This like pain and rage when they should forgive? They should beg for for my forgiveness. And then of course, he read the quote, that's like, you know, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. And then everything we've been talking about as well with God, dude, like, Dude, I have been so humbled recently, over the last, you know, less than a year of my own journey, where it's like, the forgiveness given to me, is so immense, I would never be able to make up for it. If I forgave every single thing that ever happened to me negatively in the entirety of my life, like won't even come close, like 0.001% infinitely small. And that helped me as well realize that like, Dude, I am just a brother with this guy who like needs to be forgiven? And who am I to say no, because I didn't deserve to be forgiven by my Heavenly Father in the first place. And just that has tweaked everything for me. And it's not easy, like some of the hardest stuff. And I love that you said to like, really feel it and write down those feelings? Because it's real man. And it's totally okay. And there's no judgment that has to be involved. And in fact, my next question was going to be what are the correct roles of feelings and emotions in a man's life? And I think there's like so much nuance here. Obviously, I think you've talked about this in one of your posts. But it's like, Dude, there's, you have to be an emotional master, because your wife and kids operate more there. But you also have to be able to feel because your human being and otherwise if you don't, they just fester inside, while at the same time not becoming a slave to them. So do you want to maybe just riff on the role of like an emotion of man's life because I've been telling my guys like, do their data points. You don't have to judge them or feel angry or feel sad. I'm such a wuss, like there's so much damage that gets done from the judgment in my estimation, way beyond the damage that gets done by the feeling. So anyway, man, anything come up on that? I think this is really important for guys to understand.

Jonathan Rios 48:51

Yeah, I'll get to that. Let me just say this with the, the forget of this thing will cross over to the forgiveness what it does, it doesn't delete the memory. It deletes the sting. It takes, it takes the stinger out so that when you think about it, it no longer causes inflammation in your emotions. So see, like you you can't delete the memory. But you will. When I forgive someone, I can actually maybe be in their presence and not feel that threat state or not feel that the rage. It's like it's kind of neutral now. It's like oh, okay, like, I had to forgive actually forgive a neighbor who sued me and did many other horrible things. When I forgave him, and three months later, he died. He dropped dead next door of a heart attack just dead. And I was authentically able to go to his funeral and like, we fed his wife and we were able to like, be there and not have animosity at all. It was gone. The memories weren't gone, the internal angst and re Ah, and sadness was gone. Right? So anyways, as far as emotions go, I think it some of this just you have to, you have to treat it like building muscle. It just takes some practice. I'm still building my muscle, but I'm way more comfortable being around people who are crying now than I used to be. I used to have to leave the room, it would just annoy me to such an end, that I would get so angry, I'd have to just leave the room because like, it was like, disgusting to me. When other people would cry. I just looked at it as pure weakness. And then, you know, I had to, I started to realize that that wasn't always the right move. Right. And then I had to make the prep, I had to like practice when people were emotionally compromised. I don't leave the room, I don't actually speak up or say anything, I just stay in the pocket. And I practiced staying in the pocket. And if you practice staying in the pocket, you can just get a little bit more comfortable with it. Right. And it's the same with my, my emotions. Sometimes I know me, sometimes I need to get a loan and process what the hell I'm so angry about. Not necessarily process that with my eight year old. Right? But listen, I mean, we're I'm realistic. Sometimes you can't just escape to the beach and go meditate in criss cross applesauce position, right? So the practice is pre emptive. For me, it's okay. I know my kids, I'm be home in an hour. And I'm like, I'm in a bad mental state. So I preemptively what could I be doing about this, maybe I need to text my wife in advance, like, Hey, I'm gonna get home, throw on my running shoes and go for 20 minutes, and then I'll be then I'll be home. It may look like I don't come I park in the car, I stay in the car. And I just I listened to something that speaks to my soul. And I might pray. I might do some deep breathing. And I just tried to regulate before I go into the environment. But I take personal responsibility for emotions. I also did. Here's the other thing. Sometimes, like, if I tell you, Curt, I say do not think about a pink elephant. That's what comes to mind like negative commands. That's the way it works in the brain. So when you tell yourself, you can't you can't be angry right now. Or you say did you can't be anxious about this? This is not the time to be anxious. Well, oftentimes, that's what your brain zeroes in on. Right? So we have to be careful with that. Sometimes it is like dude, you know what, like, I'm gonna sit with this. I'm not gonna like make it demand that it leaves. I'm gonna like sit with it. I'm going to maybe not over not over analyze it per se. Then I wake up sometimes in a foul mood, or I'm anxious. Now. I don't overthink it. I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. I don't go Oh, shit. Oh, the day's gonna be so like, I don't overthink it. I go, it doesn't matter. I'm still sticking to my responsibilities no matter if I'm angry or sad or, or on quote unquote, on motivated.

Curt Storring 53:15

Can I jump in there for two seconds? Yeah. Okay, this is like, this is one of the things I think a lot of guys struggle with. At least the guys who I talked to, where it's like this motivation will wane. They will wake up one day feeling sad or feeling down or feeling angry. And they'll let it derail everything, they will hit the snooze button. They will miss the gym. They'll eat like crap. The yellow their kids will be you know, short with their wife. Just because they woke up with a feeling. And like dude, I get I've been there I was the most angry, miserable, judgmental to myself and others sob there ever was. So I'm not like throwing shade or condemning anyone who's in there right now. But what is the like, how do you get to the point where like, okay, yeah, that's cool. I have this feeling and I would never miss my responsibilities. Is there something to that that goes beyond the feeling that drags you along to this mission you're trying to accomplish? Whether or not your feelings are like agreeing with this?

Jonathan Rios 54:15

Well, I'll tell you kind of what, what how it's played out in my life before I was married. I really only kind of pursued things that I felt motivated about. So but I had some juicy things I was I like soccer. I like to travel. I like the beach, you know, so those are motivating for me. But then then, you know, when I got married, it basically became I moved into that warrior stages like this is my battle. I'm going to I have people to fight for now. They're depending on me. They're depending on me. So I'm going to lay in here in bed and and have a pity party when they're depending on me. I'm going to do that when she he's needing me to have her back. I'm gonna like just not work. I'm gonna just not work out and take care of myself though. They might need me in the mood in the future like I'm, I've made it more about the grid like Randall Wallace said, he's always asking, what is the man love so much could be willing to die for it? Well, I would take it gladly take a bullet from my family. So I would gladly work for them when I'm sick. When I have a fever when I'm tired, when I'm throwing up, as much as it sucks, when I feel insecure about stepping into a platform that I don't feel ready for, I doesn't matter, because this is the family that this these are the people that I'm gonna die for. So just like I take my eyes off of me, also, furthermore, bro, here's another component. I'm not like, this is the spiritual side, I believe wholeheartedly that one of my main objectives in this life is to really steward and manage what God has given me. And that I will be held to account for the gifts, the talents, the abilities, the skills, the ideas, the visions that God has given me. And you think I'm gonna stand in front of God and go, Oh, man, I was like, I was tired for that month. He's like, You were tired. I gave you this great vision, and you were scared and you didn't pursue it. So I had to give the vision to another man who would have the gumption to run with it, because you wouldn't run with it, because you are afraid. And the whole, I told you, I, I will never leave you or forsake you. And if God is for you, who can be against you, and you still didn't believe me when I told you that, and you didn't manage well. And it's funny, you can spiritualize that. But that's the way it works in the natural. If you work at a decent company, they're not going to celebrate mediocrity, I don't care what the popular woke narrative is they're going to you're not going to make it far doesn't matter. Motivation doesn't matter. So when a man fears or loves God, and when he loves people more than he loves himself, you'll find oftentimes that that inner grit, that inner drive can increase because you're no longer just a man that's battling for himself. You're battling on behalf of others, your offer, John Eldridge would say, true masculinity is offering your strength on behalf of others.

Curt Storring 57:24

Dude, that was some of the most convicting stuff I have ever personally heard. I just, I just want to sit in that. Because no, like, I tend to be along those lines where I have moved in from this feeling to this vision or mission is how I would compare the two like, I don't care how I feel, I got a mission to complete. And I'm gonna do that because it's too important. But dude, I want guys to just sit in that, that is so convicting. And, like, Okay, here's the thing. I know how convicting that is. And I'm feeling like, I need to go do something. I'm glad that this is part of my mission, what we're doing right now. But there are guys that I talked to who got no fight left. And as many posts as I make on Instagram being like, you can't wait another day. Your family is literally on the line. Some guys still kick it. They're like, well, and I'm like, Okay, I don't know what else to say. It's not my responsibility, obviously. But I hate seeing guys who could just put a little bit of extra work in and do that. Do you see this in in therapy? Like, does it take therapy? How do we, this is the age old question. How do we get guys asked us to get into gear when they're not willing to do that themselves? Or is that impossible?

Jonathan Rios 58:37

Well, there's, there's two ways, I guess I would think about that, you know, going back to those developmental stages, if you never answered the question, I have what it takes, you're gonna it's going to be a lot harder for you to to think that you could even accomplish a mission. You're going to not feel qualified or competent. To do it, you're not going to feel that you you've got it in the tank. So you just might make excuses. So that's so we need to go we need to rebuild that area of our lives. That's one component. Then I thought as you were saying that when I trained at VMI, we had something called malingering. malingering was a extreme offense and could even get you kicked out. That's when you feign illness or injury to get out of duty. So it would be considered malingering. If you told your commanding officer, I just shot really feeling like it. That doesn't fly. That doesn't fly in a company of quality men. So men can do that to their families when they're not held to a standard by a company of quality men. Right? Is who she going to run to. You don't have any boys that she could go talk to about it. She's gonna go to her girlfriends and her family and they're all going to despise you because you're not holding up your Under the bargain, and I don't want to shame people and just guys have way more in the tank than they think they do. But this idea of relinquishing of abdicating duties and responsibilities, your wife, your partner, your kids, those are like, that's your responsibility. It's your duty to provide for them, it's your duty to protect them. It's your duty to offer your strength on their behalf, even if it means you have to die doing it. That's your duty. So, but you've got to first like buy into that. Yeah, buying it. I can't I you, you made me think like, I have days, bro. I'm human. Okay. I despise administrative stuff. I just end to be just between you and me. Since we're in the nest. It's social media is a real struggle for me. I delete the app after I post things. Just because like, I've just doesn't do it for me. You know, but I realize it's like, it's unnecessary. And I want to encourage people and so I do see the value in it. But it's it's drudgery for me sometimes, but I also understand this isn't all about me. You know, so when I'm doing admin stuff, I'm doing invoicing and stuff like, this just annoys me. It's like, Dude, my kids, they deserve to eat and my kids need school uniforms and, and my wife, she deserves a guy who provides for her and so it's not about me, I can take this admin job isn't about me. So we men's, it's not always about you. Who gives a shit? You can't Mullingar through life.

Curt Storring 1:01:33

Dude, that's so well said that selflessness. And that, like, I noticed that too. I realized the other day, I was thinking about this in my own life. And it's like, Why did I struggle for so long? And I was like, Oh, I was a selfish. I was so selfish. Everything was about me. And I didn't feel like it at the time. It was like, Well, I'm working hard. I'm trying to be a good dad. I'm trying to do this. And it's like, no, that was literally all for you, bro. You were like so insecure, do it. You did not know you were good. And so every single thing had to be about you. And when I stopped that, and actually the thing that I should say here as well. It's like my wife told me one day she's like, Do you even love us? Excuse me? Like, well, yeah, obviously look at all these things I'm doing. But that cut to my core, because I realized that I couldn't truly give them my love when I was all directed on me. And I thought it was so special. Like you said, like, oh my story. It's so unique. Nobody will understand. I need to be you know, all this kind of stuff. And all my attention was on me, me, me and my pain. And it wasn't until she called me on that, thank God that I started like looking around and trying to just trying to be more compassionate, more considerate, more empathetic, like, Oh, you're an actual human being to and from my wife, like you gave me your life. And that really helped me to just re I don't know, like just put my put my focus on where it needs to be, to show up to serve. And the more I do that, the less I feel, I am needy. And the more I want myself to almost like, I don't know, like leaves me dinner, it's a weird thing to say. But in my morning prayer walk, I'm always praying, like, you know, Holy Spirit, just like fill me with with you and who you need me to be and get me out of there. I don't need to be there anymore. Because my existence is for other people. And I'm still really struggling with that. Just, you know, it'd be brutally honest. Because I'm still got that little bit of fear that if I don't get mine, I'm gonna be like, lost. There's a lot of trust that goes into that. Anyway, I'm sort of rambling now. But I just want to like pinpoint that selflessness is what really is required in this regard? If you're a dad, and if you're selfish. You know, maybe there's some work to be done there. Any thoughts on that?

Jonathan Rios 1:03:47

Yeah, I had the thought. I think it was Dostoevsky who said it, I'll connect the dots here. But he said, If God is dead, all things are permitted. So if there is no God, do what you freaking want. Eat, drink, party, be merry and die. Because none of it matters that you'll not be held accountable for any of it. Just freakin do what you want sleep with who you want. Party as much as you want. Spend your money how you want. If God is dead, all things are permitted. But if God is real, what if What if all this really matters and the woman and the children he's given you really freakin matter? And the vision that he's given you really matters, and you have a task? And so you have to respect the task. Right? You have to respect that. There's a text that says we will be held accountable for every idle word we speak. Right? That doesn't mean God's just like crazy. Judge with a hammer is just gonna beat the shit out of you. It just it's like he's a father. And my dad held me to a standard man He still does. You know, he I would I know he loves me, but he's like, yeah, like, you're part of this family. So what you're gonna do, you know, well, you're part of God's family. This is what you're going to do. Whether you want to or not, right? This planet Surprise, surprise isn't isn't my planet. It's not about me. I didn't make it. I'm like, I'm a part of the mosaic. But I'm, I've got my part to play, man. I'm part of the orchestra if I don't play my part, the whole damn orchestra sounds funny.

Curt Storring 1:05:32

Yeah, the one last piece on this, I'll just share like, this happened yesterday, my my prayer walk. I was humbled so bad, like I was so good, I should say. And then I gave thanks that it was through, like vision and prayer rather than, like something really terrible happening. But I used to think of myself and I'm just like, I'm being super real here. Guys. If you're listening to this, maybe, maybe you understand this, too. I used to, like, literally in my head, put myself on this pedestal, you know, like one of those Grecian Roman pedestals that would hold up, I don't know what they're called columns. I put myself on a pedestal made out of one of these columns, because I was just so good. Like, I was like, 80 percentile in everything in my life. And I was like, Dude, I am so much better than most people. And the thing is, it's lonely up here at the top. And woe is me. But you know what, at least I'm so good. And I kept myself away from most people. And I kept the almost like, self worship, dude. And this is a huge, huge issue with the selfishness and with seeing yourself as being so good. On my walk yesterday. I'm looking around, there's a weird weather. It was like mist, but it was coming down. But it was like fog. It was just bizarre. And I was like, man, like, God, this is incredible. And I was like, Oh, wait, he invented weather. What have I done? I've done nothing like that. And so in my head did this vision of myself still was on this pedestal. And I turned around in my like, my vision. And this infinite pedestal was before me. And I just felt like sick. Like, oh, you little, you know, sob How could you dare put yourself up there, when you're comparing yourself to this, like that is so sick. And I watched myself step down from that pedestal and realize it like, dude, I'm just I've got my brothers and sisters here. We're no better or worse or anything like that. But that was just like such a real humbling thing for me. And like it's happening my life right now. I'm being sanctified right now, as of yesterday, with this massive humbling piece that I think, and I'm praying that this is, you know, the only way that I'm going to need to learn, I don't want to be hard headed here and have something really hit me. But I think this is going to help as well in my service. Because I would think like, yeah, I don't really want to hang out with that guy, though. Because like, I'm better than him. But I'm hoping and I'm really praying that I can now serve more men, and I can serve my family better, I can now serve my kids better, because I don't think I'm hot shit anymore. Because I know I'm not especially compared to infinite perfection. So anyway, I just wanted to share that a little bit of an interesting story in my life. But yeah, any any last thoughts on here because I want to wrap it up in a sec, and talk about primal corpse and everything that you're doing, but anything that you need to say that we haven't touched on yet.

Jonathan Rios 1:08:16

I need to get another tattoo. I don't know if that counts.

Curt Storring 1:08:19

Okay, what's it gonna be?

Jonathan Rios 1:08:22

I don't know. I gotta convince the wife first. Where that's that's a whole nother conversation. No, yeah, I'm good. Okay.

Curt Storring 1:08:31

All right, man. Well, thank you for being here. This is awesome. This is just like, exactly what I'm hoping for. Because there's this like level of wisdom that you're able to provide in this very calm way. That always lands in my soul. So I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this. But could you please give guys a way to connect with you? Whether that's just on you know, Instagram, your website, or dude, like, tell us about the primal course. Because this is one of the things that I am most angry that I cannot come down to the states to attend. And I'm going to make it happen one of these days, but we'd love to let you know, guys listening. What Rios is all about? Because this is like incredible stuff.

Jonathan Rios 1:09:07

Yeah, man. So that's why to reach out to me is probably through Instagrams primal virtues. and my website is www.thrive.co That's spelled th R i v.co. And, yeah, the problem of course, man. It's a mixed bag. But what I would say is, it's a, it's an immersion experience is three day immersion experience for men. And the goal that I had was to was to basically have men come through a process and have them leave having garnered hard skills having built brotherhood having been forged, having been tested, and that that sense of I do have what it takes being cemented in them, also getting assessed by other quality men because you will be assessed, but it's also in beauty. So I've tried to combine all those different stages. The Blue Ridge Mountains just so just incredible. The the terrain is really brutal, but beautiful, the lodgings are amazing. The instructors are great, you're going to learn you're going to hit Body Soul and Spirit is what I say. So it's a lot harder than people think it is. Basically, nine out of 10 guys who go through it, they end up going, Dude, I didn't think it was gonna be this hard. So I don't, I'm not I don't mark it how hard it is. But it's freaking hearts if you wanted real challenge, the gauntlet has been laid. And, yeah, man, I'm trying to facilitate that as often as I can, at this point, every two to three months is my is my goal for this year. And then I'm building out a 2.0 version on the island of Puerto Rico, which is where I was born. That's where I'm from. You don't need a passport if you're an American to go there. But we'd love to have you Curt if you could if we could figure out the situation with the borders. And you know, I don't know, I don't know what the rules are right now. But yeah, you're more than welcome to jump in on that. I'd encourage you guys to apply as well. Where can they play? Yeah, so just DM me, and then I'll shoot you a couple personal questions. I don't just select guys just because they want to come like I choose the right guys who need to be there. So yeah, DM me and then we'll go from there. You can also email me through my website three.

Curt Storring 1:11:26

Okay. And we'll have those links in the show notes at Dad.Work slash podcast. That's primal virtues on Instagram, but you can get that link out the show notes on our website. Dude, thank you for this. This has been really edifying. I've enjoyed it very much. And make sure guys if you're listening, follow Jonathan go and sign up for the primal course or at least apply. Probably won't get in because it's pretty badass. Yeah, at least let him know you're interested. So dude, thank you for being here and chat on Maple chat tomorrow.

Jonathan Rios 1:11:53

Thanks, Kurt. I appreciate Tom buddy.

Curt Storring 1:11:57

Thank you for listening to the dad work podcast. That's it for this episode. But if you would like to stay in touch between weekly episodes, why don't you go over to Instagram and follow me there because I draw up a number of things throughout the week that are related to what we talked about on this podcast but usually go a little bit deeper, provide some tips you can find me on Instagram at dad work dot Kurt. That's da di W O RK dot c u r t. And please, if you have been getting something out of this podcast, if it has touched you if it has improved your marriage, your parenting or your life, would you please leave a quick review on Apple or Spotify. leave a rating. If you have a few extra seconds, leave a quick review. That's the best way that we can get this work in the hands of more fathers. And I truly believe that we change the world, one father at a time because each father that parents better that loves better raises children who do the same. And in just a couple of generations. I feel like we could be living in a world much better than the one we live in today. Your review will help along that path. And I thank you so much for being here to listen until next week. We'll see you then.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai