Curt Storring 0:00

Welcome to the Dad Work Podcast My name is Curt Storring, your host and the founder of Dad.Work. I am joined today by my friend Jonathan Rios. We are going to get into an episode called rejecting casual living with primal virtues. Today we are going deep talking about primal virtues for the modern man, rejecting casual living by battling, building and pursuing a glorious quest, how to set and uphold boundaries with your kids, how to stay in the pocket with your wife during conflict or hard times. What women truly want from men directly from the women that Jonathan talks to as a licensed psychotherapist, and much, much more. This is a fire episode guys. Jonathan is a licensed psychotherapist who is deeply committed to remaining undomesticated. He wants bungee jumped over the Nile River dirt bike through Tanzania, trained in the mountains with a Navy SEAL played soccer in Northern Ireland and as a military academy graduate, he and his dream girl have fostered 13 teenage boys will also successfully seiring four daughters of their own. His core motivation in life is to live courageously having fulfilled his purpose with excellence. In his free time. He's a blogger, author and a mediocre white belt in jujitsu. He's currently in private practice. You can find them online on Instagram. His screen name is primal virtues PRI m a l var. T. Yes. Or you can find him online as website thrive.co. That's t h r, I v.co. You can find all those links. Anything else mentioned in the show notes at Dad.Work/Podcast. Guys, this is incredible. I really enjoyed having Jonathan on I have gotten to know him a little bit over the last month or two and man he he walks the walk. He's a man of integrity. He's a great man, great father and very skilled at what he does. And man, I just hope that you will get as much out of this conversation as I did, because Jonathan is one of the guys that I look up to most in my life right now. So it was a blessing to have him on. If you guys have been loving this podcast, would you do me a quick favor and hit the review and rating button either on Spotify or on Apple podcasts. If you're listening, it takes just a moment and it is one of the most helpful things you can do to just show your support for the show. As we continue to grow. I think this is episode number 100. Now which is wild, and be many, many more coming up over the next few weeks and hopefully yours so if you can leave us a review it take five to 30 seconds depending on how in depth your review is. I would very much appreciate that personally, and if you're not already following me on Instagram, head over to instagram.com/dad work.curt dDADWORK.CURT That's where I'm most active doing a lot of stuff over there these days. Anyway, let's jump into this episode with Jonathan Rios. Here we go.

All right, dads. We're here for another episode of the data or podcast. I'm here and joined by Jonathan Rios, who we're very excited to have on found him on Instagram, at primal virtues. Is that right? That's the That's a tag the handle. That's it my man. Okay, primal virtue says some of this stuff started coming across my feet. And I was like, dude, who is this guy. And we connected over the last couple of weeks. And we're now sort of sitting together in a regular ish connection group, if you will. And man, I'm just loving what you're speaking into my life. So I'm super excited to have you on here. Because I know that the guys listening are going to be at a lot of value out of this because I have personally so first of all, thanks for coming in. I really appreciate the fact you're willing to do this.

Unknown Speaker 3:16

I'm honored man. I'm stoked. Let's let's do this thing.

Curt Storring 3:20

Yeah. Okay, so I love starting in your fatherhood journey. Because like I tell guys all the time, if they've been listening this podcast, they know how bad of a dad I was. And there's a lot in there. I can go into like, here's what I had to do. Here's where I sucked. Here's all these things. So I'm curious for you. If it was an easy transition into fatherhood, if it was what you were expecting, and maybe just some of those steps going from new dad to where you are today.

Jonathan Rios 3:46

Yeah, man. So I like to tell people I'm kind of a unicorn. My parents are happily married. They're still together. My dad's still in my life. He's been my mentor my entire life. I respect him. I honor him. So I had a quality model for marriage and for parenting. So when I got married, my wife and I, building up to the marriage, we had roughly five breakups, a few of those few those breakups I moved overseas so they were it was done. We salvage the relationship moved into the marriage, having battled it out, so we kind of went toe to toe for two years, battled it out. And once we crossed the threshold, it was it was fairly smooth, man, like we trusted each other. We had a similar vision for where we wanted to go. So our goal was just to have some kids and live in adventure. So we got pregnant about four months in and we've got four daughters now about, I'd say two years into our marriage. I was working for a foster agency. And my the directors were here hounding me to become a foster parent. And I was I was like, You guys are crazy. I barely have my own baby, much less, you know, but I've always been good with at risk youth, things like that. So eventually I said, Yes. And my wife and I moved into essentially a group home early on in our marriage, and raised some teenage boys for two to three years, had about 13 teenage boys over that, that span of time and kind of just learned what works, what doesn't work and had a natural knack for it. But it was also able to implement a lot of things my father had taught me. So we just kind of went into the deep end really quickly. My oldest right now is 12. My youngest is seven. And so yeah, man, I mean, I can I can tell you, like, I could give you some ideas on the values that we implemented in the foster in the group home, but also, that we use utilize today, if you'd like to hear those.

Curt Storring 6:01

Yeah, how old were you when you moved into that home and started fostering?

Unknown Speaker 6:07

Maybe 32. So got married. Okay.

Curt Storring 6:10

So you got married, had your first kid and then you moved into this foster placing, started fostering these teenage boys

Unknown Speaker 6:16

started, we had our own to have our own children while we were there to have

Curt Storring 6:19

your own man. And your wife was just like, totally cool with that on board.

Unknown Speaker 6:24

Yeah, man, you know, like, we don't make decisions unless we're in agreement. So I was initially more resistant than she was. So she was like, I think we're supposed to do it. And we came into agreement, and we did it. And you know, it's a high turnover position. It's very, it's very intense. But what's cool man is we're about I'm 42. Now. So worse, we're a little over a decade, removed, and I'm starting to reconnect with some of those foster kids. I've met, I've got two of them in my program right now. And I do I do all their clinical trainings now. So still really tied in with that agency. But it's just cool to see these guys grow up and become men and, and some of the the qualities that they learned over those years being implemented now in young adulthood. It's pretty cool to watch.

Curt Storring 7:17

Yeah, that's incredible. Man, what were some of the things that actually worked in getting through to these guys? What was sort of the difference between the ones that you connected with and you just couldn't get through? Or the ones that you know, are the guys in your groups now? Was there anything that you took from that experience that you now use to talk to teenage boys to talk to young men to get through and influence them?

Unknown Speaker 7:39

Yeah, man. So the first thing about parenting that we both agreed my wife and I agreed on his parenting is about preparing your children to face a harsh world. Right? It's, so we focus on praising effort, not outcomes. So it really does their best on the homework assignment, or they really tried to nail it with with the bathroom shore, but they just didn't, you know, I was like that everyone, my dad would come alongside me and kind of show me how to do it the right way. So that was that was step one is these, these kids are largely neglected, abused, abandoned. So they were used to rejection. So I wanted to be very careful with heart connection. Making sure these kids understood I'm not your parents, like your parents abandoned, you neglected you, I'm not that. And just a personal story, attic, attic client, or kid living in the house. Let's call them Tommy, Tommy, Tommy came into the house and this kid had been living living out of garbage cans and had been neglected most of his life. He comes in and I would notice chicken wings under his bed in the morning. He would he would raid the fridge at night, eat his food, and then try to hide it under the bed. And so I just pull them aside, Gautama. Here's the deal, man. Like, I don't, I don't know your backstory, but there's always gonna be food here for you. And the fridge is all yours, you let me know what you need. And I'm happy to help you meet those needs, you know, and, and so it's just kind of come along alongside this kid. And just watching him progress. So I say that to say, I think a lot of times, it's the simple things that we overlook. And I just want this kid to understand. And the same with my four daughters is its heart connection over being right is a big key that a lot of parents miss. They're more concerned about being right and teaching the lesson than they are with the heart connect. And the truth is when your kid gets older, if you don't have a heart connection, you got nothing,

Curt Storring 9:40

man that I was just thinking about this recently, actually in my own life as I'm going okay, like I want to teach the lesson and I'm guilty of this too often. And I was thinking down the line. What do I want to err on the side of do I want to err on the side of loving them too much? Having them grow up and be like, oh, you know, Dad, whatever. and having their issues with me if that happens, and you know, what if I think if I love them, they're not going to walk astray. But let's say they do. You know, when they're 30 years old, I want them to look back on me. And go, Oh, Dad, like really loved me. Dad really loves me. I was wrong and thinking that, you know, he didn't dry went astray or whatever, rather than I think my dad loved me, like, tried to teach me some lessons. But like, I don't know, man, it was kind of implicit. So that's really interesting. You said that, because I'm just trying my best right now to keep that in mind, which is over love, in a sense, while maintaining all those boundaries and challenges and stuff like that. What other principles did you use? Other than or are you are you using with your daughters now, to raise them into people who can actually navigate a challenging world?

Unknown Speaker 10:48

This is a really important one, I want you guys to listen to this. It took me a while to understand difference in temperaments and personality types. Okay, so if we're not careful, we will misinterpret children's rebellion. You know, I have one of my daughters is she's very strong willed, type, type a go get it, she's disagreeable. You tell her go left, she wants to go right, that kind of that kind of kid. And I used to think that she was just being this hardened, rebellious kid. And now I see, these are qualities that she's going to need when she gets older, to swim, to go against the tide to stand up, when everybody's going in the wrong direction. To hold fast to a moral creed, you need to have a bit of bite a bit of ferocity, right? So one of the things that I do with her that we do with all of our kids is we teach them to question everything in a respectful manner. So when I teach them things, I go, why do you do you think that's true or not? Why do you think that's true? When they watch a commercial on TV? Or when they see an ad? That that we might disagree with? Morally I go? Well, what do you guys think about that? Do you Why do you think that's okay? And just letting their little brains run a little bit and letting them question in the home and then trying to guide them in that in that way. So we teach them the truth, but we teach them to question everything. And, and we find our kids they actually really enjoy that and it stretches them. Another principle man that we implemented with the with the foster boys, but also our our girls. We haven't we kind of have a no whining policy, in which every every parent's struggles with that when all no matter how perfect your kids are, they're going to battle with the whining thing. And so for us, the whining, immediately, we immediately implement certain consequences it my girls do lots of push ups, when they live, we also when they're fighting, and they're being disagreeable with one another or hitting each other, we'll implement like a two minute hugging deal where they have to face to face, hug one another and they don't want to but after the two minutes, it's like, they like each other. Again, we do early bedtime, we do timeouts, we implement chores, you gotta go deep clean the front porch or deep clean the laundry room. In the in the sense of consequences. Those are some of the ones some of the Go twos we use with foster boys, one of the one of the lessons I wanted them to understand from day one is around here, you get nothing for free, I will love you for free. But you have to earn everything. If you want. If you want spending money, you're going to do a chore for me. If you want an hour of game time, you need to give me a half hour of exercise. I'll work out with you. But we're doing a fitness routine before you get your game game in. So it was it was an exchange, I wanted them to learn in life. You don't just get handouts, you've got to earn it. You don't have to earn my my unconditional love. But you do have to earn my respect. Right. So that was that was something that stuck with those guys. And I was talking to one of those guys the other day, he's now he's 20. I think he's 21. And he highlighted that as like, Hey, man, that really stuck with me like now I I understand when I when I work for somebody, I got to earn the respect. And you know, I don't expect handouts, and he did moving into the house. It shifted once he moved out,

Curt Storring 14:18

man. Those are awesome. Thank you. I want to go into the consequences thing just a little bit. And like are these clear consequences of the kids know before they do a certain action? Do you guys have like a an agreement? I was talking to Matt Boudreau. He's on my podcast the other day, and he was talking about one of his family rules. It's funny that you mentioned whining, because one of his family rules is like no complaining, fix it. And I really liked that. And the way he was talking about it was like, everyone kind of knows the consequences going into it. So they know that if they do mess up, it's like, okay, I'm making the choice to accept the consequence. How do you guys communicate the consequences in times like that?

Unknown Speaker 14:53

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you need to preemptively hey, here's what happens if you hit. Here's what happens if you lie, but then you know, you're not perfect. So you're going to get caught up caught off guard every once in a while. And I think you just need to have like a storehouse of, of calculated disciplines that you implement when they violate a boundary. Right. So like, for example, my kids know immediately if they're talking disrespectfully to their mother, they're immediately going to have early bedtime. It's not a warning, it's not like it's like, Dude, you knew it going into it, that's on you. They're gonna, you know, they're gonna fight, you maybe have a little temper tantrum on it. But still, it's like, it's on us as the parents to hold the line and not be manipulated by their tantruming. Yeah, you know, in a calm in a calm, assertive manner.

Curt Storring 15:47

That's it, man. Because I'm thinking about all the questions that guys have asked me. And it's like, you get into that space where they're disrespectful. And if it's not based on clear boundaries and consequences, it becomes, you as a parent likely are going to be angry, but you're also going to just punish, in a sense, that does not tie it back to the boundary itself. So I wonder if you can go into a little bit more about like the boundaries that are required to then be cross for a consequence to be enacted? Like, how are you thinking about that? Because a lot of guys who listen, have not really explored boundaries in their own lives. So can you just touch on that sort of like a high level? And then how that might look coming together with your wife and creating those boundaries?

Unknown Speaker 16:29

Yeah, so I mean, you know, depending on age ages, so my youngest is seven. So teaching her boundary violations, like that's kind of one of the things a life skill you have to learn is, what's an appropriate amount of strength? exertion? What's what's appropriate, as far as what can I say to people? What can I say to people? How fast do I need to obey things like that? So I'll often pull my kids aside one on one. And I'll go Hey, babe, I noticed you just hate your sister, or hey, you just said that thing to your to your neighbor, buddy. Do you think that was appropriate? You know, and usually it it gets to the point where they begin to, they will admit, I knew what I did was a violation. But I'm all when I say heart connect, I'm trying to get them to understand the why. Why are we this isn't just dad's rules, like, there's a reason for the rule. And now, but she's seven so that you can only go so far with that. My oldest is 12. She's on she's almost 13. So for her, it's a walk, you know, when when I have to dish out a consequence, I like to take them one on one and just help them understand the reasoning for the consequence. If she's hot in that moment, and angry, I might wait a bit, and then try to do it when she can receive it. And the truth is, men hear this. If you think back to your childhood, some of the lessons you learned there were like seeds that had to percolate. You You were corrected, and you didn't get it in the moment. Some time went by and the seed grew a bit. And your understanding you go oh, okay, now I get it. So some of this stuff, we try to teach as best we can in the moment. But don't underestimate that you are planting seeds in your child's life, whether they're 712 15. A lot of times we want the Quick, quick result. But don't underestimate like a farmer doesn't underestimate when he's planning his seeds that next season, he's going to reap a harvest. Right? We have to have the kind of the long game mentality even when it comes to our children.

Curt Storring 18:37

Yes, I love that. Because I think a lot like even for me, going through a lot of this kind of stuff and having to learn it from scratch. I felt just didn't know any better, was like I wanted the thing to happen right now. And I get angry when it wouldn't. And I'm seeing now that the repeated exposure to these boundaries and consequences. Now I'm getting my kids my sons to be like saying preemptively to each other like, Oh, don't do that. Because here's the reason. It's like, man, they've only had this for a few years or 972. And, and they're already picking up on this. And I'm just hopeful. And I'm really encouraged by what you said that over the years, these things that we're doing consistently. They might not like right now, but they are definitely going to get it when they're older. So I've got to keep, I don't know, just continuing to be encouraged and confident in that and plant the seeds like you say, so I appreciate them. And thank you. Absolutely, man. Yeah, let's go into Yeah, sorry. Go ahead.

Unknown Speaker 19:34

I was just gonna say man, like, I'll tell you working with foster kids. You don't see instant results. But and, you know, all you can do is the best with what you've got. And you have like, some of this is is faith. It's on trusting that I'm planting these seeds and they're going to reap a harvest. And so we have to get rid of sometimes we have to get rid of our expectation. that we will get an instant result. We have to trust that love. When love is dispersed appropriately, it actually will affect people. Right? Love also holds people to a standard. That's one of the things I'm big on is holding my kids and my foster kids to a standard. Here's my expectation. I love you. I'm not. I don't I'm not mad at you. But I'm gonna hold you to this. And I do have to consequence you.

Curt Storring 20:26

Yeah, man. Yeah, that's a way better separation of those two things. And I went into my journey with which is just like, I don't know what to do. I'm out of control. I'm feeling like you're pressuring me. I don't think you're having a hard time. I feel like you're giving me a hard time. So I'm just going to come down and punish you so that it stops. And I was losing that ability to sort of love first. And that's been a lot of my work is just like, How can I calmly approach this make sure it's unconditional love. And love is not permissive? I'd really been focusing on that lately. Because, yeah, if you don't have boundaries around this, someone recently told me that young boys are kind of like wild stallions, you got to get them into a barn so they can kick against the barn doors, they can kick against the sides bash up against the boundary, so they can form what they need to move through life eventually, without just being completely untamed, so that their behavior in the world gets them in trouble. I don't know if what do you think about that, but I thought that was pretty good.

Unknown Speaker 21:20

I love that analogy. You know, just triggered, I have this specific memory of walking out of my bedroom into the we had this group home walking into, like the main living room area. And every morning, three to five of these kids, they were so needy, because they'd never had like a consistent, healthy adult. So the fact that I would actually follow through and things They latched on to me. Well, they would be waiting, as soon as I opened the door into the living room, they wouldn't be sitting on the floor right there. I knew they were waiting for me this, it'd be 6am. And they're waiting for me because they need something. So being like, it was a large weight to carry. And I remember being irritable going, I don't feel very loving towards these kids. Like they're too needy. They're just all they always need something from it. It's always take take, take, never give, give, give. And I remember learning in that season of life, love isn't isn't a hot emotion. Love is primarily a verb, it's an action. So when you don't feel loving towards your kids, you have to go okay, if I was to take a loving a sort of action, what would that look like? And it has nothing to do with your fluctuating moods. I used to feel guilty about that, like, Man, I feel like I should love people more. I feel like I should love these kids more. And, and I had to learn love is should never be dependent upon fluctuating moods, or hot emotion. It's always a verb. It's always action, respectful, honorable action. That's, that's the mentality we need to have when it comes to our children.

Curt Storring 23:00

Was there anything beyond just that mental reframe that helped to sort of solidify that so that it can become an action in your life, rather than just like, oh, I keep forgetting and Dominic,

Unknown Speaker 23:10

it's being okay with, I can detach from my irritable, irritable mood, I don't need to be feeling Lovey Dovey, in order to act lovingly. I don't need to feel a particular way in order to execute the mission than to make breakfast or for the kids or to clean up after them. Like, I don't need to feel lovey dovey about that. In fact, when you get married, or you have a partner, it's like, you're not going to feel like doing the dishes, bro. It has zero to do with your feeling or your energy levels. Love is not an energy level. It's a it's a decision, followed by assertive action. It's not mood based.

Curt Storring 23:53

Oh, dude, I want you to say that louder and like 10 more times. Because I think there's a lot of guys, especially those who are like struggling and this is who I'm trying to reach with the podcast is guys like me, who are struggling and kind of lost, at least for me, I was lost in my emotion, typically anger, but nothing else was really there. So it was weird, because I felt like I had no emotions. But I was totally run by my anger and everything that was underneath that. And so I think to hear that is super important. Because for me, I needed to get the full breadth of my emotions so that I could operate reasonably within that. And I saw so many guys come along with me and my journey and men's group and whatever else who got so focused on the emotion, that it was only the only thing that mattered. So if I wasn't feeling flowy that day, then things collapsed. And I mean, like, I can talk to the fact that it's just habits and it's just knowing in your core what truth and goodness is. But I wonder if there's any maybe final piece on this that can help guys We're so lost in the emotion, not to negate the emotion because it's important. It teaches us things about what we're experiencing in our boundaries. Is there anything else that you tell guys who are deep in emotion to just be like, dude? That's great, I hear you and get your shit done.

Unknown Speaker 25:16

Yeah, man. So there's this term in psychology is called displacement. Alright, so displacement is when, let's say you're at work, and you're in a board meeting and your boss disrespects you at the board meeting. Well, you can't punch your boss, because you'll get fired and sued. So you go home and you kick the dog, you go home, you punch the hole in the wall, or you yell at your wife, or you short with your wife or whatever. A lot of times the angst and the frustration, or the mood of the emotion that we're dealing with isn't actually appropriate for the moment, it has to do with something else, we have to get better at dispelling emotions in the proper context. So like, from I'll be honest, two days ago, I was just having an off day, where I was, I was feeling like a build up angst, irritability. And I just told my wife, I'm like, Look, I gotta go try to figure this out. And I used to turn nature. So I went on this two hour hike, and I'm cussing I'm praying, I'm breathing hard. I'm chewing on pine needles to, you know, there's a, there's, they're actually antiseptic, but I'm just trying to figure out what's going on inside of me. And oftentimes, this is this is for me, I've found when that stuff that that stuff starts to build up, it's an opportunity for me to vent and to express what I'm feeling in a prayer in a form of prayer, or in a form of physical activity, so that when I come back to the house, I'm not transferring that energy, that displacement to my spouse or my kids, but I've got to be on top of, like, knowing me, and going if I don't deal with, if I don't discharge this, quote, unquote, energy, this emotion in the right way, it's going to come out sideways, and people are going to suffer.

Curt Storring 27:11

So good, man, that's so good. That that just like encapsulates so much in regards to what it actually means to be. I don't know, I don't even know how much I liked the terms were like emotionally intelligent, or something like that. You got to know yourself, and you have to have the tools to get through it in a way that you are responsible for, because I see so many guys that I work with, who are offloading responsibility of their emotions onto their kids. So they'll yell at their kids, they'll shame their kids, they'll almost they'll act like a little bully, to be honest. And then it just offloads and I think what you're saying is displaces the emotion onto the kids where they need to be dealing with that themselves. Whether it's something that happened in the moment, or whether it's something like pain they're carrying from whatever wounds or trauma or something like that. Are there any other tips that you have for guys like that? Like I know, we talked about deep breathing a lot. Talking about exercise and nature and whatnot? Are there any tools that you would recommend to guys who are finding themselves elevated like that? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 28:07

yeah, exercise is a big one for me, man. Here's another one, bro. This is like, this is something I do with my wife to preempt that stuff. Because it you know, I liked that word preempt you got it, you got to try to get out in front of some of this stuff. Rather than just waiting till it happens, you know? So one of the things my wife and I do either weekly or bi weekly, we have a check in conversation. And we call that like our our love tank conversation. And that's, it's like, hey, what do you need from me right now? Like, where are you? Where's your tank filling love. She might say something like, Hey, babe, like, you keep saying you're gonna do the dishes, or you keep saying you're gonna take the garbage out or you keep you keep saying that you were going to take the kid and sign her up for soccer. But like, it just keeps going by the wayside. And I feel a little bit neglected. And I've been frustrated about that. Okay, so I can like try to swoop in and rectify that. Or it might give me the opportunity. Hey, bed. Honestly, I don't I can't remember the last time you affirm me verbally. And I'm, I'm honestly feeling really angry about that. And disappointed. I don't I don't want to be angry about that. I don't want to feel resentful with you. So I don't know, I just I think I might need some more verbal affirmation over the next week or two, you know, and it feels weird to say that kind of thing. But if I eat here's, here's what happens if I don't say it. The resentment builds. And if the resentment builds the anger builds, and that's going to come out to bite that's gonna bite you in the ass. It's gonna bite your wife in the ass. So that's what I mean by pre emptive it's also an opportunity to go Hey, babe, like, honestly, I I, I really would like it. If you would initiate sex. A little bit more. I'll take over. But could you just initiate you know? I don't know a couple times a week or whatever. You guys tell Knock it out. It's not by the way, this isn't. This isn't a conversation about pointing at your wife and going, here's where you're failing me. It's a conversation to say, here's what I think I'm meeting, here's how I think you can help me meet these needs. And let me here's a warning to all the men listening, you will get your needs met in a healthy way, or in an unhealthy way. So if your sexual needs aren't being met in a healthy way, guess what, you're gonna go out and sideways. Right? So and your wife will too, if you're not meeting her needs for quality time, guess what? You're setting her up to try to get those needs met with another man. Or just through scrolling on social media and fantasizing about other men? So we have that's what I mean by pre emptive stuff.

Curt Storring 30:51

Yeah, that's awesome. And we talked about that in my men's groups quite a lot with communication, just generally being communicative. And I love the weekly or the bi weekly meeting, we've done things like that. And it just reminds me that I need to re implement that as we move into this new chapter of us. homeschooling, we're going to need that even more. But we talked about this, it's like, it's okay to express your needs. And I find, at least for me, I have to sort of drop my expectation in a sense, because if I express my needs, at first when I was learning this, and I'm only saying this, if you're sort of new to this, if you're listening, when I would say my needs, I'd be like, Well, okay, you better meet him now. But I had to learn to like, I could drop my expectations and still be cool with that and still be responsible for my own needs. And I wonder if there's like, if there's anything in that that comes up for you, what's the balance between I got these needs, I kind of expect you to meet them. But I also can't build resentment for you not meeting these needs, if you're not resourced to do so I feel like that's a bit of a balancing act on both partners.

Unknown Speaker 31:49

Yeah, uh, well, I guess the way that I would think about it is, let's say, Okay, so I've got a glass here, it's like, almost empty. If my wife is operating on, on E, I, it's, it's a little bit delusional for me to expect her to have much to give. So like, let's say, classic example. You've got young kids that have been yanking on your wife all day. And they've been like touching her physically. And I'll get home and I'll be like, I want to kiss my wife or hug her. She's like, I just need to not be touched. For a while. Yeah, you're not careful. If you're not careful, you're gonna personalize that. But you're you see, what you're dealing with is a woman who's who's operating on low energy levels and needs some some space, she needs some alone time. If you'll give her that, and let her tank refuel, she'll have more for you. So it's being aware of what your wife needs, if you can help her meet her needs, she can help you meet your needs. But then at the same time, like you're both responsible to, to have to get your needs met, like I have a need for physical activity, I can't wait on my wife to work out with me, I gotta get that done myself. I have a need to stimulate to be stimulated in the mind, through podcasts or reading or I read the Bible. I like to I like to be challenged academically. So you know, like, I feed my own spirit. Rather than waiting for other people to feed it. And in so doing on, you know, fine, I'm feeding my own spirit, my own soul, actually have more to bring to her. But it's it's nourishing me, which then can nourish her. That's the idea.

Curt Storring 33:33

Yeah. Oh, dude. Okay, so here's a question that's, like, very relevant to a lot of the guys that I'm talking to. When you are that man and you're taking responsibility. It's almost like you got two responsibilities, you got the responsibility to be filling your own cup in a sense, and the responsibility to be giving her the space or her needs to fill her cup, so that it becomes reciprocal. And it's almost as if at least a lot of relationships I hear. You know, the husband is the one who's taken on almost both roles simultaneously. And I hear guys who are like, look, I'm doing everything I can. I'm giving her space, and she's just checked out. She's not reciprocating. What happens there. Is there a boundary that a man should just be like, Look, I've tried everything, and I'm done. How do you get a guy to stay strong, and hopefully bring his wife around? And I know there could be a million reasons, but I wonder if anything comes up for you on that.

Unknown Speaker 34:21

Yeah, I have a memory. So I'm Hispanic. So my family is very communicative and loud. So I thought my mother was yelling at me until I was 90. And then I just realized, but my wife grew up in a family that's kind of stoic, they don't touch a lot. They don't really confront each other about stuff. They're just kind of live their lives. So I get married to my my girl, my wife and I remember distinctly, feeling like she was upset about something. This is early in my marriage. And she wouldn't talk about it. She wouldn't bring it up. So I remember just, she was sitting on the couch and I was like, listen, I know something's going on here. Are you you're acting like there's nothing wrong, but I know there's something wrong. I'm not getting up off this couch, until you tell me what's on your heart. And I'm not. And with respect, I don't, you're not going anywhere either we need to figure this out. I waited on that couch for almost two hours. And then eventually, she started crying. And I had neglected to, to do something for her that she had wanted, that I had forgotten about, or something like that. But she was used to this pattern of cold shoulder or passive aggressive treatment. And for me, it was staying in the pocket. It was going into the fray, and, and just going, Hey, I'm willing to do this out with you in a respectful manner. Help me help you. And it's not running away and not personalizing so much, you know, from alien planets, your wife is not you. She's, she's altogether different. So I mean, yeah, I think. I think for me, it was learning to stay in the pocket on her behalf, and leaning into the discomfort and not like, here's the thing, man, we have to understand. The purpose of conflict is not conflict. The purpose of conflict is to get to the peace. If you only engage the conflict, you can have no peace. So, avoidance of comp like I meet couples are like we don't ever fight. I'm like, well, that's, I mean, there's a way to fight and contend with one another that is respectful and actually stretches you and grows you. If you're never having any any kind of disagreements, then you aren't neither of you are being totally honest. Yeah, are you? Are you both just way too agreeable. And that's not good. We need to strive to be assertive, rather than fully let them in to agreeable. So that's my two cents on that.

Curt Storring 36:58

Man, I think it's worth more than two cents. Thank you. I know we're talking about principles and parenting and I want to talk about principles in I don't know being a man, I know we're talking about I mean, your thing your your your Instagram handle your your book, I think is even called Primal virtues. And I know you're talking about some primal instincts as well. And I wonder if you want to go through these and give guys just I think you said there were three primal instincts that help you stay. I don't know. What did they help you? Do? You want to tell us about those?

Unknown Speaker 37:27

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, well, the three the three instincts that I think are bases on if your listeners don't know, I, I'm in private practice. I meet with lots of men. And as a therapist over the last coming on 20 years, you hear you hear people's secrets. People tell you people go to therapy to share their secrets, their deep, dark, shame, and all the stuff that they don't want to talk to anybody else. So I get that stuff all the time. And I just noticed men tend to flourish and thrive. When they at minimum hit these three instincts they fulfill these three instincts which are battle build and quest, battle build and quest. So think about this. Every man on the planet wants to be the hero. Okay, so think of think of every movie, or the movies that men love. They love Braveheart. They love Cinderella Man, they love Star Wars Band of Brothers even Maverick the new topkin movie which by the way, I think is the number one grossing movie from Paramount ever

Curt Storring 38:37

so much toxic masculinity.

Unknown Speaker 38:41

It's it's a global hit. Right? Well, what is it about these films, men, men love to see a hero. Step up and overcome to be courageous met which require you can't be a hero, if you're not willing to face the battle. Right? So William Wallace and Braveheart. He's got to face the British Empire. Right, Cinderella Man, he's got to face abject poverty by fighting the world heavyweight heavyweight champion. Right? So he's got to contend there's there's a battle. And I want you to listen to this quote. It's by John Eldridge who's kind of the godfather of the masculinity movement, he said, without a great battle in which a man can live and die. The fierce part of his nature goes underground and sort of simmers there, and a Solon anger that seems to have no reason. His fierce part of your nature will go underground if you don't engage battle consistently. So you know, a lot of men are too casual, they they're not fighting for anything. And casual men will be casualties. That's the honest truth. Okay, we have to we have to fundamentally reject casual living. And we have to enter the fray. We have to understand this war. Are sorry, this life is war. And this is a beaut. Here's a beautiful metaphor guys listen to this. Imagine, Curt. Imagine I send you on a getaway retreat to France at my private villa on the beach. Okay? And I'm like, Look, Curt, just go there, just, you just lay low, get your thoughts together, get some r&r, and three days in, you wake up to these explosions. And you open the front door. And it turns out, you're at Normandy beach, it's 1944. All right, bullets are flying, men are dying. And you then have a choice. You can engage the war effort. Right? And try to help try to try to engage the battle or you can shut your door and go back to your coffee, and pretend it doesn't exist. A lot of men have failed to understand life is life is a battle. It is a war unless you wake up. Okay, what do I mean by that? There's a war for your marriage. There's a war for your kids. There's a war for your finances. There's a war for your physical, mental and spiritual health. And unless you activate and get aggressive by aggressive I mean using forceful methods to to win. You will just go out with the tide my man, you know, you the river, the current of life, the current degeneracy, and decadence and filth, it'll just take human. And you'll be shocked going, Dude, I didn't sign up for this. Well, it's like you went, you didn't sign up for the Normandy invasion. You just happened to be there. And now now you have to choose. Right? So that's what I mean, when I say battle. You have to battle for your vision, bro. Like, a lot of a lot of your listeners are likely entrepreneurs or they're, they're creative, and they want to they want to start a business. It's like, look, that ain't gonna happen by accident. You better battle for that battle for your vision or it's not going to play out. So that's one the battle piece. Did you? Did you have any questions about that?

Curt Storring 42:00

I do. That is maybe the most eloquent way. I've heard that because that is this like, idea that I feel I have almost grasp and you just man nailed that I love reject casual living. I don't have any questions other than like, I just want to, I want to keep going, Man, I want to hear more, because this is great. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 42:17

Yeah, so that's what so in practice, I try to help man like, Hey, man, where are you? Were in life. Are you not battling? You know? And how are how are we? How can we battle more effectively? You know, don't do it. Don't do it like this, try it like this. So that's a lot of times what counseling is. And last thing I'll say about the battle piece, you know, warriors that don't engage the battle, they get soft. So men that are too tied up into entertainment and pleasure seeking, they get soft. And there's a famous story in the Bible where King David, it says he should have been out at war. But he didn't go with his bros to war, he hung back and he's on his roof, and he sees a neighbor's wife bathing. And he commits adultery with her. And it says at the time when kings were supposed to be at war, this happens to David. So there's a very real piece to this. Unless you are engaged in the battle, you are going to get into things that aren't for you. Yeah, so we need to avoid it. The best way to avoid that is to stay engaged in the battle. Yes, second. Secondly, build. And by the way, we're just going through these really quickly. But the second one is built, in my estimation as a therapist, and as a man, men are happiest when they see themselves growing. Right? So let's like let's bust a popular slogan. You're perfect the way that you are. That that's bullshit. You're not perfect the way you are, okay? The human soul must grow. And like I want your listeners to like think back to a time when they saw themselves growing. Okay. You weren't you you were more fulfilled when you saw yourself growing. That's just a fact. And to quote you, I don't know if you know this quote, but it's by Seneca. He said, No man is more unhappy than he who never faces adversity, for he is not permitted to prove himself.

Curt Storring 44:30

Yes.

Unknown Speaker 44:33

Right. I try to live by that. There's a there's a part of men that must grow must build. So I'm going to give you a couple categories of men that you should tackle that you should strive for, in terms of building yourself as a man number one physically, men who aren't building themselves physically aren't on some level of some exercise routine, some level of healthy eating. They're they're limiting them. selves the mind. Hear me guys, the mind is housed inside of the body. So unless you're sharpening the body, you're also hindering the mind. Okay, so that's one mentally. Mentally men need to they need you need dynamic learning, you need to be stretching yourself. Men who don't read bro they stay infants. I hear a lot. And this isn't to shame anybody. I didn't read my first full book till I was 23 years old. So that I skimmed books. So, no shame but like, I was very immature. So reading books, podcasts, taking courses, going to trainings, going to emergent experiences investing yourself men and investing in your soul in your mind. Okay, spiritually, that's another category. A lot of men have never really thought through their worldview. What do I think about the purpose of life? What do I think about God? What do I think about religion? What do I Is there a god? Is there a creator? If there is, what should I do about that? A lot of men are around hardened atheists who believe in nothing or agnostics or or nihilist, who believe there is no meaning to life. If if you're surrounded by those men, I'm going to warn you, you're going you're not going to have a meaningful existence. Need to met you need to be around men that believe in things that are striving for greatness. Last to vocation, you need to be striving vocationally. The only thing I'll say about that is don't despise the day of small things. If you have a job right now that you don't like, you need to understand. If you don't learn the lessons in that small job, and you don't execute them, well, you're not, you're not going to be promoted. It's the way it works in the natural, it's the way it works in the spiritual. So if you're showing up late if you're half assing, the job. If you're if you're despising listen, if you despise the day of small things, you won't be ready for the day of big things. Lastly, is another category where men need to build themselves as brotherhood, regular fiery interaction with other men, through noble conversation through shared experiences. You know, I trained Jiu Jitsu, one of the things one of the mottos is to be a lion train with lions. Right? So those are those are just a couple categories as far as men building themselves. So let me pause. Does that make sense?

Curt Storring 47:45

Yeah, dude, it makes so much sense. And in fact, I, I sent out an email to my list yesterday. And the basic idea was, it just popped in my head, I was like, man, if you're, if your life sucks, it's no wonder that you're going to be an angry dad. Right? Like, all these little things are building up. And I think what I was accidentally getting at was this lack of building, if you're not working out, if you're not exploring things that are generally useful to you being a human being. And if you're not creating, you're not looking for more to grow. Like it makes so much sense. You're going to be miserable, and you're not going to be as well, you're just gonna be more angry. So this is all making a ton of sense. So physically, mentally, spiritually, vocationally, and in brotherhood, are there things I know you mentioned jujitsu, working out, eating well, spirituality, reading? Are there any other things maybe specifically with brotherhood, because this is one of those things that I'm battling against? We run men's groups, we run communities. And so many guys go, I didn't even know I needed this. The first meeting they come in, they're like, Wow, are there something or they're like, I don't know, maybe things in that brotherhood category, specifically, that you have seen that are either accessible or that men should seek to grow in?

Unknown Speaker 49:02

Yeah, absolutely. I would say if you're seeking a brotherhood, look for men, that are critical thinkers that don't just by popular narratives that actually have discernment and question things, look for that type of men. Look for men of uncommon discipline. But furthermore, this is the challenge to your listeners is really, it's a challenge for me, I grew up poor. So I was always hesitant to invest in trainings, or anything that would grow me as a man. And over the years, I flipped the switch and realized, if I want to grow and develop in a particular area, I need to be exposed to men who are thriving or flourishing in that area. So one one thing is to just not be afraid to invest in yourself by going to an immersion experience, like I If I host a mountain training course, a survival course, I host a rite of passage group. I myself go to trainings I've recently wouldn't train in the mountains with a Navy SEAL. I do clinical trainings all year long. I invest in me. And I think a lot of guys don't understand. That is necessary. Okay. The last, the last primal instinct I wanted to cover is quest. Right? So quest is this idea that a man needs a glorious mission infused with adventure. So just to be frank, I don't think adventure is a peripheral peripheral issue. I think men without adventure in their lives. Men without strong mission will always medicate. They're gonna meditate medicate with video games, they're gonna medicate with booze. They're gonna medicate with promiscuity with on uninhibited entertainment, Netflix, stuff like that. You're also going to see men that engage high risk, destructive activity, because they actually lack constructive adventure. So yeah, my encouragement to the guys that are listening is where are you on quest in your life? Like, where are you exploring? Are you taking any calculated risks? Are you embracing adventure? Are you moving into the unknown territory? Frequently by unknown territory? I mean, like relationally, spiritually, are you pushing the edges? I would caution you. We need to be disciplined, but routines can turn into ruts really quickly if you're not careful. So start before you're ready. One key feature to pay attention to guys is pay attention to inner desire. I remember as a kid being fascinated with Ireland, thumbing through books always just loving Celtic culture. Well, when I was in my early 20s, that that grew into me flying to Ireland to try my hand at professional soccer, and trying out with different clubs and landing a contract. But it was because I paid attention to that, that seed that desire, watered it over the years, and then i i grabbed hold of all my courage and flew to Ireland not knowing anybody and and took a crack at it. And I'm leaving a lot of details out but that's that's the idea is going on quest. Frequent adventure. By the way that's highly attractive to females. When they see a man on on quest.

Curt Storring 52:47

You there you get, yeah, and they don't want to be that quest is one something I picked up from one of your recent posts. Is that something you can speak to very briefly?

Unknown Speaker 52:56

Yeah, absolutely. Well, well, okay. So let's just so basically, let's just talk about what women want. Alright, so I'm married, going on 14 years, and I work with a lot of married couples, and I work with, I work with a lot of couples also work with females that are looking for quality men, this is what they're telling me. So this is me just reporting to you guys. What women are telling me so don't kill the messenger. First, first thing this is one of the most common things I hear is I want a man who's bold and assertive. But I constantly hear the thing that turns off females is hesitant, passive men. They don't want that. Right? They want a man who's decisive, who's action oriented? A man who's a man of substance, right? Men, they don't have the mother, they really want a man like that. So So my encouragement in that category to be bold and assertive is Stop waiting for permission. Stop, like look in your life, where are you playing it too safe, you need to really give yourself a bit of an inventory. And let me challenge you like, let me ask you a question. Why is it that women tend to be attracted to bad guys? Well, in my estimation, bad guys know what they want. And they're willing to barrel through you to go get it. Right. So there's like there's a assertiveness now it's, it comes out sideways if you're a man of bad character, but women are wanting guys that know what they want. And will will move will move heaven and hell to get it. Right. So that's the first one boldness assertiveness. You asked about women not wanting to be the mission. So let's title that adventure women. Women don't want to be the mission they want to be. They want to be on an adventure on a mission on a quest with you. So she wants to be with a dude who can take calculated risks. Notice I said calculated, she wants to feel alive. And if you're not alive, she's gonna have a hard time, you know, feeling alive. I like to quote a colleague of mine, she works with people that are going through crises in their marriage. She's She works with people that have just had an affair. And she said, the most common thing she hears that people that are having an affair is they say, when I in my affair, I felt alive. If I felt so alive, well, they had to go outside the bounds, to feel alive because they weren't alive in their own relationship. Because there was no quest, there was no intense mission. Right? So we have to as men, we need to be men on mission. All right, and let me just last thing I'll say on that. Oftentimes, a woman won't want to go on a mission with you or adventure with you. Unless she feels security. She feels like like you have her back, like you're gonna protect or provide for her that you that you've held down a job and you've, you've got some savings in the bank or whatever. Once she feels secure with you, she will be willing to launch out with you. But But a lot of guys, they just like, Well, hey, just this just fly by the seat of our pants, and hope it works out. And that's not very secure for female. Right? So by the way, that was me in my early or my early marriage, when I got married, I had a motorcycle, and an iPod. And I sold both of them to get a wedding ring. So I'm not trying to shame anybody. I'm just saying, Hey, don't be that guy. Another another big one. I hear women saying they want men of strength and courage. So there's a there's love this story. Years ago, I read this book. It's by a guy named Richard Wurmbrand. He's dead now. He was a Lutheran minister in Romania. The communists invaded his country. And one day he and his wife are sitting in on a communist lecture in a church. And they're like spewing their propaganda over the crowd. And he's, he's a minister and his wife nudges him, she says to him, she says, Richard, you need to stand up and say something. And he said, Woman, if I stand up and say something, you're going to lose your husband. And she said, I do not wish to have a coward for a husband. So yeah, right. And so he stands up says something. A couple days later, he goes missing. He he's locked up and put in prison for 14 years broke.

Unknown Speaker 57:40

Him and his wife, they both were put in prison. She got out after a couple years. After 14 years they reunited. Alright, so go read the book, Richard Wurmbrand. I forget what it's called. I think it's called tortured for Christ. But my point is this women don't want weak men. They don't they need a man with so they need a man with spine. That's what they're wanting. I hear what I've verbatim gonna quote you a female client of mine. She said, I, my husband is a pussy. I want a real man. That's what they're telling me. And I'm like, that's not the popular narrative. In popular culture. The popular narrative is men, women need to become more effeminate and more in touch with their, their soft, their soft skills, they're more in touch with their emotions, nothing wrong with us being emotionally intelligent. We need we need that. But we've we've lost something along the way. They want women want a man who can protect them, can shield them, can carry them to bed when needed, and do what needs to get done in the bedroom. Right? It's okay to embrace a bit of stoicism, y'all. So that's it. That's a category of strength and courage. Here's another big one. I hear women saying, I I like men that can take charge. And the way I like to think of is men that are able to establish order out of chaos. So meant, like, let's say you have a bunch of kids bringing order into your home, bringing discipline, bringing instruction, organizing your work life, organizing your room, here, bringing order into your neighborhood, if there's if there's a bully in the neighborhood, like what are you going to do about it? And you can't you can't actually handle bullies if you haven't cultivated your strength by the way. Right, your moral strength, your physical strength. That's That's what I mean by establishing order out of chaos good men. They actually purge the ranks. They purge evil from the ranks. They they they hunt out they hunt down the cancer and they eradicate the cancer. That's what I mean by establishing order out of chaos. Another big one. And I think you'll vibe with this is women want a man who, who's self controlled? Who isn't ruled by anger or any other vice vice. He's, he's learned how to harness his aggression. He's learned how to control his tongue. He's learned how to control his drinking, how to control his childhood fantasies. Like I see a lot of guys. I see a lot of men that are it's like they're living in extended adolescence, they're still acting like teenage boys. But they're 25 or 35, or 45. A self controlled man is a man who's yielded to high moral standards. Right? So I hear women saying, I want to self controlled man, you know, I don't want to have to Mother him.

Curt Storring 1:00:54

I don't know how much time you got left here. But I'm super curious about that childhood fantasy thing, because that's something I've been talking about with some of the guys in our groups. If you got a couple extra minutes, is anything you can say on that? In regards to what does it look like to actually drop that?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:08

Yeah, absolutely. I've got all the time in the world books in a rush. I would say and I think sometimes men get sensitive about this, but there's nothing wrong with pleasure. And there's nothing wrong with us engaging a bit of entertainment periodically. The problem is when a man is not on a great mission, and he's not living an adventure. He's not on a quest. He will self medicate. Right? So I see a lot of dudes that are like, they're in the gaming world. And that's the biggest adventure in their lives. You know, what is what is gay, I made a post about this recently, what is gaming do for men, it gives them a sense of conquering a sense of challenge, a sense of adventure, they get to go to war with their buddies, they get to beat somebody in from across the world. Right? And it requires a bit of skill, it pushes them, they actually get dopamine hits, they get a rush of adrenaline. So it actually does something for them. But, but it doesn't, it doesn't actually push you forward in real life. It's virtual life. So that's, that's one way I see childhood fantasies playing out is we need to understand that that actually isn't promoting you in real life. Okay. And again, I'm not saying it's not a it's, it's okay periodically to just to have fun. Okay, so don't hear what I'm not saying. Um, another childhood fantasy, I think I see guys just miss spending their money on toys. I take my kids to the store, and they want every toy on their idol and they have no self control. It's like, when I became a man, I put away my childish ways. So it's self discipline, self control. Okay. Should I buy this? Is this a smart investment? Would my wife approve of that? Is does this will this chip away at my wife's respect for me if I make this purchase? Dude, I know a guy who just show up at home with new cars doesn't even consult his wife. I'm like, bro. I mean, I know you got the money for it, but you do need to be in agreement with your spouse on that. You know, so that's kind of those are some some ideas when it comes to Yeah, absolutely. Let's see. Here's another Just a quick one. A lot of women are telling me you know, I really I wish men are more chivalrous. You know, like more courteous opening doors for me. holding my hand gently. Walking, walking street side when we're on the sidewalk like stuff that has kind of gone by the wayside in modern day. Modern day, masculinity. Men have high honor men that that live by a high standard that don't they don't bend that standard for anybody. In let me let me just say this like if you hold yourself like a king and treat her like a queen, you'll be doing pretty well for yourself. A woman is like a flower you all like if you if you nourish a flower, if you give it sunlight and the right fertilizer, it's going to blossom. If you don't feed it the right things, it's going to shrivel and that's how that's how a woman is. So we need to you know I'm talking to myself here man like sometimes. Sometimes I'm a bit rough around the edges and I have to go wait a second. Am I being chivalrous or on my woman? And even bro even like I actually grew up saying yes, man. No, ma'am. I I want to I want my daughter's that for girls. I want my daughters to understand. A man of chivalry like rising from the table when a woman walks in the room. I think that shows high otter high reverence And I would like to see those things reinstituted.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:03

And I hear women saying they liked those things. That was assuming of course, she's not a radical feminist.

Curt Storring 1:05:11

Are there any who are not laughing man? Oh, man, you've been hearing all this and I'm I'm loving it because I think somebody needs to say it. And I think that's so good because a lot of men are being scared away by those radical feminists going like, oh, okay, I guess I don't need any of this gets, I just need to be more feminine and all that kind of stuff. And then they're basically castrating themselves, when it comes to finding a partner when it comes to being a good husband. So that they can please someone who's gonna hate them anyway. So I'm loving.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:40

Absolutely, man. I'll give you one more row and it'll be a quick and dirty you guys will have to go do their homework on this. But men we need, we need to understand women's love languages. The Five Love Languages is really simple quality time physical touch acts of service words of affirmation and gifts. I don't have enough time to unpack those. But I'll give you a classic example from my own marriage. It took me three years of marriage to understand that my wife's main love language wasn't physical touch, it was acts of service. So I would rub her back, grab her hand, kiss her and initiate sex. And I thought I was nailing the target. I thought I was really kind of filling her tank. And it turns out that wasn't high on her list. What was high on her list is washing the dishes and keeping the kitchen clean. And when I did that, she thought I was the man. So, which is funny, because if my wife does the dishes for me, it does nothing for me. Right? We tend to try to love people the way we receive love, but other people aren't you. So understanding your woman's languages and your kids languages, it's almost like a good way to think of it is you speak French. And they speak. They speak Mandarin. And you have to learn to speak Mandarin. Right. And that takes a bit of conscious effort. Yeah, so those are those are kind of the the typical things that I hear from women concerning what what they're wanting from their men.

Curt Storring 1:07:21

Goldmine, man, that's so good. Thank you for that. And guys, if you want to find out those love languages, I know I've done the test online. I think it's like a, I don't know, 510 question test. Super, super useful. And I've got one for kids on there too. As far as I recall. I did it and my wife did it. And we just emailed each other the results. And it's like, Here you go. Now, you know. So that was super useful for me as well. So I highly recommend you guys get into that. Okay, man, I would love to continue chatting about all sorts of things like your rite of passage experience and a bunch of other things. But I want to wrap it up here, because we're coming out just after an hour. Can you just tell us where to find you and where to find your experience and your practice and everything else that you're doing these days?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:05

Yeah, man. I mean, honestly, at this point, you can go to my website or my or my Instagram page, Instagrams primal virtues. My website is thrive.co. It's spelled funny. It's th r i, v.co. And Yemen. I'm currently in private practice, I have two programs. One is a 60 day rite of passage group that culminates in a final crucible experience over a weekend which is face to face. For the most part, it's virtual, but there is a face to face component. I also host a it's called the primal course. It's a mountain survival training course up in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. That's it's an immersion experience. It's a training. It incorporates some some psychological training, some, some intense physical challenge, summoning some mountains, beautiful accommodations, but it's going to challenge men body, soul, and spirit. And I've found men personally, information informs experience transforms. So giving them an experience that they that they that that's embodied, has been in my own life, very impactful, but also in the men in the men that I work with. So that's, that's me in a nutshell.

Curt Storring 1:09:20

Sick. Okay, well, we'll put all those links in the podcast notes at Dad.Work/Podcast, you can check those out and make sure you follow Jonathan and also sign up for all the stuff he's doing. Man, this was just amazing. I'm so pumped after this. I want to go and do all the things we just talked about battle building and quest right now. So I appreciate you man. I'm really grateful that you're able to share all this.

Jonathan Rios 1:09:42

Thanks, Curt. I'm honored to be on man appreciate you.

Curt Storring 1:09:51

Thank you for listening to the dad worth podcast. That's it for this episode. But if you would like to stay in touch between weekly episodes, why don't you go over to Instagram and follow Follow me there because I dropped a number of things throughout the week that are related to what we talked about on this podcast but usually go a little bit deeper, provide some tips you can find me on Instagram at dadwork.curt. That's DadWork.Curt And please, if you have been getting something out of this podcast if it has touched you, if it has improved your marriage or parenting your life, would you please leave a quick review on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating. If you have a few extra seconds, leave a quick review. That's the best way that we can get this work in the hands of more fathers. And I truly believe that we change the world. One fathered at a time because each father that parents better that loves better raises children who do the same. And in just a couple of generations. I feel like we could be living in a world much better than the one we live in today. Your review will help along that path. And I thank you so much for being here to listen until next week. We'll see you then.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai