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Today’s guest is Justin Kershaw.

We go deep today talking about:

  • Forging your true identity through brokenness
  • Why you’ll never hear “well done my good and famous servant”
  • Why the western idea of family is completely watered down
  • Building a family business
  • Having a 500+ year vision and impact
  • Trusting in God’s timing

Justin Kershaw, a grateful resident of Hilliard, Ohio and graduated from Michigan State University and is a grateful husband and father. He’s an advocate for the profound life lessons found in sports. Professionally, Justin owns Venia Medical and Sow Strong Food, striving to promote wellness and sustainable nutrition.

At 17, he embraced the teachings of Jesus, and his faith remains central to his life. Justin believes in the power of the cross and the importance of family.

Find Justin online at:
: @justinkershaws

Resources mentioned:

#160. Identity Through Brokenness - Justin Kershaw


[00:00:00] Being a father isn't something they do. It's who we are. We're supposed to be heads of households and we're supposed to rule and have dominion, not the way that American culture says, not the way that, uh, Middle Eastern culture would say, but the way that God says we're supposed to do, and that means to be loving rulers and to create culture.

[00:00:25] Justin kershaw on the podcast, Dad.Work podcast. This is Curt Storring you guys are listening as you know, because you click the button So here we are And uh, bro, I see that you're in full dad mode, which I really appreciate

[00:00:36] Curt: And I, uh, I wanted to just like, before we even got into the basics, I just wanted to bring us the way And so I hope you're okay with that because the thing that's on my heart is, uh, identity. Right now because God is just like scraping me along the bottom of the coals and rock bottom, and it's really challenging who I am. [00:01:00] And I'm like, well, who am I outside of Christ? I, I guess I'm no one. that's been glorious but difficult.

[00:01:05] Curt: And the reason I'm asking you about this, Is because you went through the, the sort of football career, right? You, you, I saw, I did some research, obviously guys in Colorado were like, oh, the football player, and I was like, I didn't even know. Okay. It makes sense based on, you know, you're a big guy, but when you to this place in your life

[00:01:23] Curt: Where you're a young man your whole dream, your whole identity is this sport and potentially being professional one day, you then have to go through this like radical transformation.

[00:01:33] Curt: I assume, when you're like, suddenly my identity is just gone. I think that a lot of men do this in corporate when they're 65 and then like nobody notices as much, you've had to do this as sort of an early age. So I almost wanna bring us through like was that a thing that you had to deal with? Did you have your identity in Christ before that?

[00:01:52] Curt: Like how was your identity formed and changed losing something that you had chased for so long? Can we just go all the way deep there?

[00:02:00] [00:02:00]

[00:02:00] Justin: Absolutely Curt. First and foremost, I'm honored to be on here. I was honored to get your email that you asked me to be on the show. As you see, I'm in full dad mode, which I appreciate your podcast and what you're about, your heart. Um, and I'm honored to have this conversation with you and, uh, there's a.

[00:02:17] Justin: There's a quote from a w Tozer that says the most important thing, I'm paraphrasing. The most important thing about a man is what comes into his mind when he thinks about God. And, think in addition to that, it's the second most important thing is what comes into our mind when we think about who we are.

[00:02:34] Justin: And your, our identity is crucial because you act . Consistently with who you think you are. And, uh, I found the Lord when I was 17 years old and it was amazing. And I think, um, finding God puberty and then meeting the woman that I would marry later down the line, my life was radically changed and I associated, uh, football success with being saved and God having a [00:03:00] calling on my life and in America, football's the best product in the country.

[00:03:05] Justin: I mean, it doesn't get any better than the N F L. So, yeah, I, I did deal with a lot of identity issues with thinking I was nobody if I wasn't playing football, and I know I'm not alone in that. There's a ton of data that shows the mental illness that men are having when they're done playing football. And I think it has to do with concussions, it has to do with stress, but I think there's an emotional attachment to who you were in your lower twenties.

[00:03:31] Justin: And if you're not careful, you think. With thousands of people screaming your name, you're famous when you walk in the grocery store, when you walk off on campus, what have you. And so, yeah, I did struggle with that. And it's taken a, it's taken a while to get over. Um, but I think I'll say this about football.

[00:03:51] Justin: We're called to cultivate culture as believers in Jesus and as men, I really believe that. And there's, there's nothing better than I've seen in [00:04:00] my mind that shapes young men other than the military or football, in my opinion. That doesn't mean you have to do that. And, and I love what football stands for, how it, it, it, it makes men, it makes a man out of you.

[00:04:13] Justin: It teaches you how to, how to, uh, depend on a team and how to work for your brother. And there's very few things that work like that in our country right now in America. And I even see with how people are anti-military or anti-America, people take pride though in their football teams, in their communities.

[00:04:31] Justin: Even a place like Boulder that's super liberal. Um, they take pride in their football team. So it's, it's almost like every man should play football, in my opinion, . But if they don't, it's okay. And so, yeah, I did struggle with that, but knowing that, uh, there's more than my life than being a football player, my identity is in Christ.

[00:04:49] Justin: What does that mean? That means I'm called to rule and to have dominion over and to, to, to win other souls to Christ, bearing the image of God. That's what it gave me. [00:05:00] So I hope that answers your question.

[00:05:01] Curt: Yeah, no, this is, um, like, it's such a potentially one of the largest issues because like you said, you end up acting how you feel or who you think you are. Uh, and I'm just noticing now that my whole identity even, I mean, I've only been a Christian for like a year and a half, so, uh, I gotta give myself some grace there, but my identity is so based on me and self.

[00:05:22] Curt: Yeah, just is, it's all self, it's self-confidence. Um, and I've really noticed lately that dude, things like emotion comes up and even though I know all the tools and I am, you know, super even keeled from years of trying to stop being angry, I'm like, dude, I can still get thrown off by negativity. God's kinda like you wanna rely on you, like you could just put me on bro.

[00:05:45] Curt: And here I am having to let go of me and like really die to self, like really, really die to self right now in order to then put on him in order to robe myself in Christ. And I just thought, like as I was [00:06:00] doing research for this conversation, it's like, man, it must be so much more difficult to do that when you had sort of high highs like you were talking about, and then.

[00:06:10] Curt: You like you said you were saved already, but like, okay, you can say that, but what does it actually feel like? Because I think I read like an interview that you did and you're like, dude, I was waiting for like arena football. I was waiting for like the C F L to call me back. Hey, I'm in Canada, . You know, you're probably not really excited about playing the C F L, but like all of those avenues you're closing.

[00:06:30] Curt: I'm just like, dude, I almost want to just see what that, that that point was like as you grow, because now you're a father of many children. Now you're, uh, a husband. Um, but I can't imagine that that was just like a flick of the switch. Oh, God's, god's got new ID ideas for me. It must have been painful through that.

[00:06:50] Curt: Were, were there things that you did to come to this new realization, which is like, yeah, I'm in Christ and I'm supposed to rule and, and, have dominion. Like what was that like? I wanna see if we can get a little bit of, [00:07:00] uh, like tactical feedback here. If you're, if possible,

[00:07:02] Justin: Yeah, that's, that's really good, man. Um, It's really good. I would, I would say that I, it's something that I struggled with when I was done playing football and it's something that I still struggle with, to be honest with you. Every fall when I smell the grass. 'cause I, I love the game, but I think the Lord has gave me the right perspective because, um, we talk about amongst men how dangerous premarital sex is or how we should abstain from a sexual immorality and pornography.

[00:07:29] Justin: And we tell our kids not to steal and to tell the truth. But never do we tell our kids, Hey, don't seek after fame. And, um, I think, like I said, in America, it's not only the, the love of the game or whatever it is, uh, hockey or stardom or being a movie star, it's this, it's this desire to be famous. It's this desire to be famous and to have people know who you are.

[00:07:54] Justin: And I think you have to be very comfortable with living a quiet life and realizing that. [00:08:00] The majority of the world will never know who I am, but these next five generations of people will know me. And more than that, God knows who I am. God knows who I am. And um, there was a scripture in, um, the Tower of Babel where they built the tower up to make a name great for themselves.

[00:08:18] Curt: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:18] Justin: And then God tumbles the he pumble the tower falls down. You look a couple chapters later, there's. And God comes to him. He says, I'm gonna make your name great and you're gonna be a blessing to many. And then I heard a friend paraphrase. He said, God will never say, well done, my good and famous servant

[00:08:37] Curt: Oh.

[00:08:38] Justin: and so and so.

[00:08:40] Justin: It's like it's this, it's this fame it. Um, what I appreciate about sport is when you get a sack in football or when you score score goal in hockey, the thing that gets me fired up is who you had to become to get that sack or who you had to become to get that goal. It's the person that's what sports is about.

[00:08:58] Justin: And if fame comes with that, [00:09:00] that's great, but I think it becomes more about, like you said, everybody knows who I am, this is all I know how to do. I. Um, it's a beautiful game, but, uh, the Lord wants to get you alone by yourself, on your knees, depending on him looking to him, not the roar of the crowd. Those are great things.

[00:09:19] Justin: Those are great things, but he cares about your heart, and that sounds very cliche, Kurt. It sounds, because we hear it all the time. God wants your heart. What does that mean? He wants you to be alone in the closet saying, I need you and all this other stuff..who cares about it? I'm gonna die one day. You know, I'm gonna die one day

[00:09:39] Justin: I don't need the roar of the crowd.

[00:09:42] Justin: And, um, one of the greatest gifts of my life is exercise. I'm sure you like to work out and exercise. And the, the thing that bothers me about kids these days working out is it's all filmed and everybody sees it. Champions are built when nobody's watching. We're supposed to pray in [00:10:00] secret and given secret as believers.

[00:10:03] Justin: Not whenever everybody's watching. So you're getting me fired up now, man. And um, yeah, so that's, I hope that answers your question. So I would say the tactical things that I did was, um, I think this is theologically sound, but God had to, I was broken. I became broken. I became broken over sin. I became broken over, uh, the need to, I wasn't doing something I loved.

[00:10:26] Justin: Um, I wasn't known anymore. I had to do jobs that I, I thought I was better than to be completely honest with you. And, um, and so I would just say a brokenness of like, okay. And then seeing also man, . Other people get older and, um, the guys that I idolize, it's like they're not even playing sports anymore.

[00:10:44] Justin: This is all gonna end. And so do I have the right perspective? And I don't wanna peak at 20 man. I want to, I wanna get better and better. And that Jimmy Carter, whether you believe in his politics or not, he's like 98 years old still teaching Bible study. [00:11:00] That is, uh, and it's like, man, that is legacy. That is longevity.

[00:11:04] Justin: And our western culture will make you think that you're supposed to peak and have it all figured out at 25 years old by playing a sport. That's stupid. And I mean, I, I love this sport, but it's so dumb. It's like it's a sport and we got this dramatic music and, um, what should, who should be on the front of the newspapers, but they never will be, are the mothers that are birthing these babies and then going to work and then pick you And then coming back home and breastfeeding and taking care of their kids or the fathers that that are developing culture and developing the next generation of leaders and and are telling people about the Lord. Um, so I would say tactically I had to be broken and the Lord shifted my perspective on what was important.

[00:11:47] Curt: Yeah. Well, and then he just does the work, man. Like that. That's the crazy part is I always thought that was so cliche, uh, before becoming a Christian when it's like, oh, you just become a new person. I was like, give me a break, and then it's happening. [00:12:00] I'm like, oh my goodness, bro. This is real. And so God just does the work.

[00:12:04] Curt: And I think I've noticed in my life, I just have to be at that place where I can surrender to being broken without holding onto that, um, . The selfish pride. She's like, oh no, I'm better than this. And I like what you said about that, like jobs that I was better than like, bro, I feel that like hardcore. And I, I love what you said about the people aging out of the league.

[00:12:22] Curt: It's so fleeting, it's so temporary, and yet we ought to be focused on the eternal. And I was at a bible study social last night at dinner and one of the guys, he read something from John and the idea was basically like, one thing he said struck me 'cause I'm, you know, entrepreneur like you.

[00:12:38] Curt: And he's like, it doesn't matter if your business fails. God's Jesus is literally preparing a dwelling place in heaven for you right now. And that's where you'll be forever. So like who caress if your business fails? And I was like, oh, you're right. Like that's just preparation for the longer game. Um, so I dunno, I don't, I don't know where that's going, but do you

[00:12:57] Justin: I question. So you're a hockey player. [00:13:00] Oh, that's awesome, man. I can tell you look like an athlete. I would, I would say that, it's, um, as, as it pertains to athletics, I think the most people ask me all the time, And please gimme your opinion on this. They say what's, what's the hardest sport in the world?

[00:13:14] Justin: And what I think it's, I think it's either motherhood and fatherhood one and two, like being a mom's a an athlete, you gotta push this baby out. It's amazing what they do. I think being a father as well, because you have to have the energy, the determination, the, to keep your body alert, to protect your family to be strong 50 years from now, but we don't get a trophy now.

[00:13:34] Justin: We'll get a trophy later. And um, the other, you said that God does the work. Um, the scripture, it's, uh, be not conformed to the image of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And that word, uh, change. It's like it's metamorpho and I heard a friend say this before. We have as much to do with our transformation as a caterpillar does, turning into a butterfly.

[00:13:58] Justin: They just go into the.[00:14:00]

[00:14:09] Justin: That's what he does and how does it happen?

[00:14:16] Curt: Not remotely. I'm so shocked when I go down there 'cause you were trying to get into, uh, see Coach Prime if I remember correctly. And I was like, bro, college football, like do you care? And then I'm like, oh, it's the States and it's huge. We have nothing like that. We've got like junior hockey leagues, but that's about it.

[00:14:36] Curt: It's totally different. But um, One of the things that, um, all of this sort of brought up and as I was looking into just like, what, what am I gonna, how do I get to know you better? Um, one thing that I noticed, and then I think we probably share is, uh, it sounds like you like doing a number of projects. I. I was looking at this like, you got the football stuff, you've got the medical business, [00:15:00] you've got this like hanger business.

[00:15:01] Curt: Like what is that about? You've got this like, so strong bars now. Uh, but I saw like maybe like a podcast where you're planking with people. I see you like joking around on Instagram, like, dude, you're just doing creative stuff all the time. Is that because you just like have an outlet or do you think there's some of that where you're like, Trying to get shiny object thing 'cause that's me, man.

[00:15:21] Curt: I have to be very careful that I'm not just new, new, new, new, new. Where on the balance of that scale are you?

[00:15:29] Justin: That's a great question, man. I would say that, um, I, uh, I think it's a little bit of both. When I, when I got done playing football, I. Um, I was really hurt and I, uh, I worked for Stryker Endoscopy and three M, which are two really big companies. And then I thought I was gonna be a football coach and I really felt like the guy, like God asked me the question, do I want to be a good coach or a good dad?

[00:15:54] Justin: And, um, I said, I want to be a good dad or, uh, our daughter, our 13 year old was two at the time. [00:16:00] And, um, In that question, in the midst of that, the Lord blessed me to start my first business, Vinia Medical. And I started doing that. I need, needed to make some money. And the Lord opened up a lot of doors through that business and I learned that if I work hard, it'll work.

[00:16:16] Justin: That's what I thought at least. And then, um, I had really no idea about this influencer social media deal. Um, and I saw that people were doing it, Kurt, 'cause it was, the door was opened up to me. I met a guy Lewis Howes, and I'm like, people are really making a difference and I think I can do it better than them

[00:16:35] Justin: And, uh, I, I, I, uh, I started, uh, doing that, but even before that, I saw, um, me and my friend, we had a business idea and we put it online and it started working and I thought, if, if we build it, they will come and it didn't work. That was the Hangar project. And um, I think a lot of it early on was me trying to prove myself.

[00:16:55] Justin: But then it did grab a hook in me when I got back on social media [00:17:00] that I like likes. And it really appealed to me, you know? Um, and so the Lord gave me, I've looked in scripture like, God's never gonna say, what am I? Good and famous servant, if somebody has the gift of being famous, it's to make a difference and it's not for yourself, and it's very dangerous.

[00:17:17] Justin: It's like handling fire. And so I would say early on it was about like shiny objects and making money. I learned that number one, the Lord provides for me and I wanna be directed by him. Uh, number two, money's a good thing. It's a, it's a powerful tool that we can use to take care of our families, to extend the kingdom, to make things beautiful.

[00:17:36] Justin: But then I do love to create, I think we're called to be creators. And, um, uh, I want my kids, the things you've seen on Instagram, the plus size model deal, that's to.

[00:17:51] Justin: I have five daughters and, uh, they're beautiful and two of them wanna be models. And, um, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think in the world we live in, [00:18:00] God created them to be beautiful for a reason. Beauty speaks loudly of the Lord. And, um, I wanna set the stage. I don't know anything about the modeling industry, but I do know how to tell a good, and, um, I've learned that through marketing.

[00:18:13] Justin: So I, the above, I've shifted out shiny objects and towards legacy. Kurt and strategic, uh, partnerships and like thinking strategically about the future because it's amazing to me when I've done something like, and my kids, they take onto and they love.

[00:18:35] Curt: That's amazing, man. Thank you for that. And, um, I'm, I'm curious about the structure of all that right now. Um, you know, you've got this, what I assume is sort of the longer term, maybe more like boring business in a sense. The, the medical, uh, I don't even know. You can explain that better than I can obviously.

[00:18:52] Curt: Um, But like what, what's the setup with that? You've got that in the back. Um, you're, are you doing that sort of like full-time hours still or is [00:19:00] that mostly run by someone else and now you're doing this? Um, well this so good bar, I think, is that what it's called? So good.

[00:19:06] Justin: So strong, so

[00:19:07] Curt: So strong. Sorry man. Uh, the so strong bar and, and you know, I had one of those the other day and even though I'm not a mom, it was great.

[00:19:13] Curt: Um, so you can check those out. We'll put the link in the show notes. But what is your sort of like spread out right now? Because I'm trying to find this balance personally between like yeah, creating content. You could do that 24 hours a day if you wanted. Like you said, everyone's recording freaking everything these days.

[00:19:29] Curt: But I also want to be doing things that grow my. Influence with my kids, but also that builds us a, a business or some tool to go out and like, interact with the world, kinda like we were talking about in family teams. Um, so I'm like, oh, I can create for a little while, but I also wanna build another project.

[00:19:48] Curt: Something maybe more, uh, not necessarily physical, but I love what you said about the girls being involved in that. Um, so tell me just a little bit about like how you think about dividing your time and [00:20:00] just prioritizing with the, the multiple businesses you got going right now.

[00:20:04] Justin: Yeah. Yep. I've, uh, I think I was blessed with the gift of having Attention deficit disorder because I could, I can, I can really focus on, 50 things at once. Um, but I think that's a bad thing too because diluted focus gives you diluted results. And also coming from a football background, and I'm sure hockey or anybody that wants to succeed or that's driven, wants to do, I thought if I just worked, worked, worked, and um, I would figure things out.

[00:20:33] Justin: That's how my other business grew from the hand of the Lord. And I worked really, really hard at it, whether it was sitting in doctor's offices waiting for six hours for them to talk to me or. Uh, going above and beyond of what the, the doctors wanted or, you know, flying somewhere to make, to show, showing up in person to make it happen.

[00:20:52] Justin: I worked really, really hard at that. Um, and I think there were about two quotes that I heard. One was, if you have a business [00:21:00] that you have to, that can't function without you, just a glorified job. And I'm like, that's, that's very significant. 'cause this business can't function without me. So I've delegated a lot of that business to my brother, which is a gift.

[00:21:12] Justin: I get to work with him and I'm still in the business. Um, but I'm not, I'm working on the business. I'm not just in the business. And then what's so strong, I wanted to create something where I knew I was gonna have to do work, but I wanted to create an asset that would, uh, drive money in, but that could be sellable.

[00:21:28] Justin: The medical business, we have it, it couldn't be sold right now as it is. So, um, uh, so yeah, so it's so strong. That's been the majority of my focus the past three years. And, um, I, I would think there's a, there's a book by John Mark Comer called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, and he talks about, it's an incredible book, man, and he talks about how in western culture, I'm sure in Vancouver, Columbus, Ohio, our generation, it's all about grind, grind, grind, hustle, hustle, hustle. [00:22:00] And you are supposed to work hard. But he talks about how life hasn't, life in America really sped up when you introduce the car, and now we're just all in a hurry all the time.

[00:22:12] Justin: If I send Kurt a text message and it doesn't get there, Within 30 seconds, I'm frustrated. Or if my DoorDash order, I don't use DoorDash, but if you do use DoorDash, I've seen people get really frustrated if it's 15 minutes behind. And we talk about the, the life of Jesus, uh, the love of Jesus, but we never talk about the pace of Jesus.

[00:22:31] Justin: And actually John Mark Comer and Jeff Bethke did a podcast together. It was a, it's incredible. It is incredible. It's called, if you look on Spotify or a, uh, I don't think it's on Apple Music, but. Ruthless elimination a hurry. They did a 10, nine, or 10 part podcast. And when I heard that it's, it was, man, we should not waste our time.

[00:22:55] Justin: Hustling work is a good thing. Work is focus, work and dedication. [00:23:00] That is what it's about. And then also, how can I integrate my kids into what I'm doing and what's so strong. We were at farmer's Markets, you know, together as a family, and my kids got to see what it took to be. Um, a business owner and to make the bars and to put up the tent, they loved it.

[00:23:19] Justin: Um, and then it's something that they can grow with. So, um, I don't, I, I'm just now learning at 38 years old how to really divide time, but I think we shouldn't, uh, work as long 24 hours around the clock as we do, unless it's focused work. We have our phone off and we have our kids and our family with us.

[00:23:38] Justin: You know, I think of a farmer. I think there's a reason why. The Bible was, um, was written in the time period that it was, it was in the society. It was agricultural society where it was round the clock work, but then once you planted the seed, you watered it and you let God give the increase. You know, a lot of times we're operating outta scarcity instead instead of abundance.

[00:23:58] Justin: And, um, I [00:24:00] just get so fired up talking about this stuff, man. Uh, in. Um, how can we have focus work and not hustle? How can we build instead of hustle, you know? Um, and then also, um, my businesses have grown because of the hand of God. I've seen his hand, but there's also times where I've been very selfish and just seeking after money instead of seeking like, okay, how can I build an asset that will be longstanding and that my kids and my grandkids can work along with me?

[00:24:33] Curt: Man, the, um, the, the sign behind you, I, I've read it like 20 times, just like in the back of my head and I'm, I like, I didn't even realize what it said 'cause I'm just sort of like looking at it as you talk. And then as you were just saying that last thing about, you know, sowing the seed. Funny that it's called sow strong ss o w, uh, amazing by the way.

[00:24:54] Curt: And do this thing behind your head, be still and know that I am God is the [00:25:00] verse that came over. Over and over and over to me as I left Colorado, because I entered the mastermind that we attended where we met, and for the last two weeks before that, so much had gone on. So much was tearing me apart and I was striving, I was hustling, like you were saying, so that I could make the money in the business.

[00:25:22] Curt: Even though like, dude, my whole business is about sharing what I know and what God's done through me so that other dads don't have to suffer. I was like, yeah, and. I would also really like to make more money here, but as soon as I left that verse behind, you just played over and over and over, and I'm reading through Proverbs yesterday because I'm still in it, man, like I'm, I'm just brutally honest.

[00:25:43] Curt: I'm still deep in it right now. He's just transforming my heart. But Proverbs 28:20 Was followed after 28:19 obviously, but the, the order that I read it was important. 28:20 I love because it says a faithful man will be richly blessed, but one eager to get rich will not go unpunished. [00:26:00] And I'm like, snap.

[00:26:00] Curt: That's right in my heart. But, What does a faithful man mean? And to me, I was like, man, God, in all things business, in all things business, how do I glorify you? How do I show that I'm needy for you not to make a buck? But then the verse before that says, he who works his land will have abundant food, but the one who chases fantasies will have his fill of poverty.

[00:26:20] Curt: And so I'm like, okay, number one. Let's just be faithful to God with our businesses. Let's make him the CEO and ask him to show us the way. And then work hard, man, like my mentor tells me all the time, dig the, dig the ditches. One day God's gonna make it rain. You better have ditches there. And so, man, those things with that verse behind you, I am vibing on this hard right now, so I dunno if you got anything to add, but dude, I just

[00:26:42] Curt: gotta share that.

[00:26:43] Justin: I, um, I would ask you what does it mean to be faithful with your business? What would you say, Kurt?

[00:26:48] Curt: Uh, I think just what, uh, what I said after that, which is how is what I am doing honoring to God? How is my outpouring of love to God through my [00:27:00] business, glorifying him, showing him, and, and not putting myself in the driver's seat? So am I faithful to my zeal? For the Lord, am I faithful to for my heart, for the Lord? And am I then faithful in trusting his provision? I don't know. That's what comes to me. What do you think?

[00:27:21] Justin: Amen. Amen. I, I would agree with everything and there's a, there's a scripture that says, don't toil to get rich. Like we should not waste our times toiling to get rich. Um, and also, man, I just, I don't know if this is from the Lord, but I feel led to tell you this. I, I grew up in, uh, Pentecostal churches and kind of like these, I think I was a bit brainwashed at times by the Prosperity Gospel.

[00:27:43] Justin: I don't know if you're familiar, but I would always hear these, uh, scriptures about how. Um, these stories about how people got like, checks in the mail 'cause of something, you know, it's like, this is, this is, I don't believe this. Well, I'm gonna tell you this story. One day I was, um, [00:28:00] the The biggest wins I've seen in my business have have been from the Lord.

[00:28:04] Justin: That That doesn't mean I didn't have to work hard, but but there's something I believe in sweatless victories where Where Lord, will you open up this door for me and let it be clear that it's your hand. And you get the glory and I'm gonna dig the ditch. I'm gonna show up on time. I'm gonna work hard. I'm gonna grow in wisdom.

[00:28:21] Justin: And And Lord will you give the increase. And And I think that's how our businesses should be. But I was, uh, my business was really slow, uh, almost two years ago, our medical business, and it was around Christmas time and I was really sad down in the basement. I remember my wife, she was like, uh, she called me, she's like, Justin, come here and I'm in a bad mood.

[00:28:39] Justin: And I said, what, what do you want? And she was like, . She was like, just come here. I'm like, okay. So I go upstairs and she hands me a card and I'm like, what is this? She was like, open it, Mr. Grumpy. And I opened it and uh, someone that I know I hadn't talked to in years gave me a check for $10,000 as as a gift.[00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Justin: That was the Lord. It was the Lord. And so I'm not saying that we're suppo, we're not supposed to. Um, Christians Christians don't expect to get rich, don't expect for it to be easy. But prosperity goes hand in hand with, he created prosperity, he created abundance, he provides, and I believe he wants us to cultivate, um, beauty and excellence in our business so he can get the glory.

[00:29:28] Justin: And if you make something excellent and beautiful in your business, it'll work. And also too, I'll tell you this, there's a, a nonprofit that we work with. It's called Lifewise Academy. Kurt. Um, they, uh, they actually, um, legally in America can teach Bible curriculum during school hours and public schools.

[00:29:46] Justin: It's amazing. And one of the pillars of the, uh, the organization is excellence and the founder of the organization is a guy named Joel Penton, who I'm good friends with. Great, great man. And I [00:30:00] said, Joel, I, you know, you're always emphasizing excellence. Why is this? And he said, um, because we represent the king.

[00:30:07] Justin: And it hit me in that moment. It was like, whoa, time out. Time out. Like people are telling you, telling kids now find out who you are or find your why. And it's like, no. More importantly that you need to know who you are, who you belong to. Mm-hmm. . And that goes in with identity where people say, you know, the Bible says, we're created in the image of God, man, we're supposed to cultivate culture and, and represent this beautiful being, this king who we belong to.

[00:30:37] Justin: And if we put our businesses in excellence, our businesses will be irresistible and that's what we should focus on. And making things excellent and beautiful. And then I think they work. That's how, that's also how you glorify God. Chick-fil-A. Do you, do you guys have those in, uh, Vancouver?

[00:30:50] Curt: Sadly not.

[00:30:51] Justin: wow.

[00:30:52] Curt: I know

[00:30:53] Justin: We need to open one.

[00:30:54] Justin: Um,

[00:30:55] Curt: Let's go

[00:30:55] Justin: but those businesses, they're not, they're not, uh, outwardly [00:31:00] Christian. You know, they're not, I mean, I don't see anywhere of Jesus on any of their, but they do things in excellence and they serve people. Have you ever been to Chick-fil-A?

[00:31:09] Curt: Once.

[00:31:10] Justin: Okay. Incredible and profitable, fast restaurant. That I've heard Sunday, and so

[00:31:19] Curt: go.

[00:31:21] Justin: focus.

[00:31:23] Curt: Yeah, no, that, that's awesome man. And that's, um, I, I struggle with that. I actually was challenged by my mentor the other day, um, just because of my own. Stuff, um, to, to check how, what my relationship to excellence is, because that's always been on my top five values. Everything has to be excellent because there's no point otherwise.

[00:31:43] Curt: But here's the thing, and I'm, I'm, I'm agreeing a hundred percent with what you're saying, but I'm sharing something very personal that I'm working through right now, which is my value for excellence was so that people would see me looking perfect, and that's a real trip for me. And so I love what you [00:32:00] said because you almost like

[00:32:01] Curt: Took this value that I know is important. And you've mentioned beauty a few times, man, like, oh, I've, I, I hate, I, I legitimately hate that we've lost beauty and that everything's just bland and boring and minimalistic. It doesn't glorify God at all. But this idea of excellence, now you've almost brought it back into my head in a way that I can work with rather than making it make me look good, which is ego, which is selfishness, which is like this defense against, um, Not being approved of by, by man seeking approval from man.

[00:32:33] Curt: And that's, that's not what I should be doing. So I I appreciate that you said that

[00:32:36] Curt: Amen. John, I appreciate you. Appreciate it. John Piper, he has a quote. has a, he says un undistracted excellence. Um, and I, I think it's, uh, if you look at like, I'll never forget, like if you watch rap videos from from the early two thousands, it was very like gaudy Bentley's. These like a hundred thousand dollars cars and there'll be like 20 inch rims and people dancing on it.

[00:32:59] Curt: And [00:33:00] I'll never forget, I saw Prince. William get married and he had a, he he had a Bentley and it, but it, it was like so elegant and it was like, it looked excellent and it was undistracted. It's like, wow, that is a very nice car. And they had really nice like, uh, military uniforms on. It was undistracted excellence.

[00:33:19] Curt: And I think that's what's, uh, that's what we're missing now is that we should be in excellence. Um, not because, for our own sakes, but because of who we represent. We're children of the king. and um, that's what I think really matters. So,

[00:33:34] Curt: Yeah. Well said man. Well, I'm, uh, I'm curious. Why family teams is interesting to you. And I know this probably seems like we're talking about this a lot on this podcast. I just had, um, a couple people on yesterday, Lucas and Rachel Marshall that I met in Colorado as well. Probably having more guys on from this mastermind just because like, dude, the Venn diagram between like Christian businessman, father, [00:34:00] legacy minded, and that group in the middle there is a special, special group.

[00:34:04] Curt: Um, but what is it about this. That piques your interest. Um, like I, I just . Fatherhood and marriage was super important to me 'cause I was so bad. Like that's this whole idea of dad work, I, I was awful. Here's what has worked for me to make me better. Um, and the idea coming into Christianity was like, well how do I do this as a Christian now?

[00:34:25] Curt: Like, how am I going to be? I. A good family leader as a Christian. And I just loved what Jeremy was putting out. 'cause it was like, it was just real man. And it was like legacy, like real legacy. I don't care if anyone remembers my name, but if they know that I was part of the, the 6, 7, 8 generations back that created this loving family, like that's what I want.

[00:34:46] Curt: So I'm just curious, like why was this something of all the things you could be spending your time focused money on, what is it about like a multi-generational family that piques your interest so much?

[00:34:56] Justin: That's a great question. So, um, [00:35:00] I would hear stories about my great-grandfather, how he had a plastering business, and that really appealed to me and his son runs it now. Uh, my, my uncle's in his seventies now, I think. And my dad, um, growing up, my dad was a police officer. He owned a family pizza. My dad was an entrepreneur.

[00:35:18] Justin: We.

[00:35:21] Justin: There was something to be said about legacy and having business. I think it's in our D N A, but Jeremy Pryor articulated the way I've been feeling since I was a teenager, that the Western Idea family is completely umbilical and it's watered down, and I feel like how everything is structured in our culture.

[00:35:40] Justin: From parents dropping their kids off in the morning to go to work, typically to make another man rich and to have strangers take care of their children. And there's something wrong about that to me. And I've always felt that way and Jeremy was able to articulate it the the greatest way possible for, from my [00:36:00] standpoint.

[00:36:00] Justin: And also that being a father isn't something we do. It's who we're.

[00:36:04] Curt: Hmm.

[00:36:06] Justin: And we're supposed to rule and have dominion, not the way that American culture says. Not the way that, uh, middle Eastern culture would say, but the way that God says we're supposed to be. And that means to be loving rulers and to create culture.

[00:36:21] Justin: And that's why it really appealed to me. And, um, there's a guy named Rob ak. Rob is a, he's a, he's a guy from Ohio who's a skinny, skinny white dude who's a skateboarder.

[00:36:33] Curt: Right. He used to be a skateboarder. Now he's got like a massive business, right?

[00:36:36] Justin: Massive business. He had a show called Big Back in the day. Somebody made introduction Me, and I don't think a believer he's, you know, I would say spiritual. And, um, he's a, He's a good man. Um, and I got to know him and one day we're talking and he was giving me business advice and he said, Justin, you need to make sure you incorporate this in your 500 year plan, da, da, da.

[00:36:59] Justin: And I was like, whoa. [00:37:00] Time out. Like, what did you just say? Did you misspeak? He was like, oh yeah, put this in your 500 year plan. And I said, what do you mean? I'm trying to think of like 30, 60, 90 days. And he was like, You want your impact to be so great that it, it affects people 500 years from now. And when I heard that, it was like, man, that's like impact beyond the grave as a Christian.

[00:37:25] Justin: And what am I living for? We're living for eternity and we're living that to not leave only a a 500 year legacy, but to leave a spiritual legacy that last forever. And I think our, our minds are so wrapped up in, we should focus on today. That's what the Lord says focus on today. But death is not the end of the story because we have kids that are coming behind us, number one.

[00:37:50] Justin: Number two, we're gonna live forever, you know? So it's, uh, it just really spoke volumes to me of am I living a life that will have an impact 500 [00:38:00] years from now, and is my treasure being a father? Wrapped in eternity because being a dad, and I say this lovingly is a thankless job, it's, I literally just got thrown up on literally and, um,

[00:38:17] Justin: Yeah. And so it's, uh, but our God is says, well done. He'll say, well done, my good and faithful servant. So that's who we're focused on. And um, that's why it appeals to me. I think it speaks to the heart of what we should be as men to leave a legacy. Um, to not work for somebody else to, to, to, uh, have a rich history in life, you know?

[00:38:45] Justin: Um, and I think our culture just so watered down now. I really do. Jeremy, in his book, he gives a, he does an interview with like a kid from the second century and then a kid from like . Two th I don't know if you've read that from like 2015. It was like, he [00:39:00] interviewed like Yusuf from the second century and then Liam from now.

[00:39:04] Justin: And it was like this kid's like, hi, my name's Yusuf. I come from a long lineage of men that served God. Um, we own land that's being taken from us. Uh, but we, we, we grow our own groceries and my sisters help me. And, and it's like, hi, I'm Liam, I Fortnite. It's cool. Uh, I go to school, you know, for six hours a day and funny, how do we get back to that rich history? So,

[00:39:34] Curt: No, that, that's well said, man. I love that 500 year idea. Um, also incredible focus by the way. You're talking about A D H D, uh, and with all that screaming in the background, it's so good, dude. Like I know that. For me, uh, I went to a, this was a while ago. I went to a friend's house who didn't have children, I don't think I have very many friends like that these days.

[00:39:54] Curt: Um, and his dog was coming up and his dog was sort of nuzzling me and I was just like, whatever. And [00:40:00] he's like, oh dude, I'm sorry. Like the dog gets in your BA space. And I was like, oh, there's a dog there. I didn't even notice. Like, I'm so used to having three, four kids crawling over me, did not notice there's a dog here at all.

[00:40:09] Curt: Uh, so anyway, I appreciate the fact that like, you're in it right now and it's incredible because. This is how we ought to be able to have conversations in the midst of it. And so like super meta to comment on like, what's happening right this second. Um, but it's so good, man, because how many people are just shushing their kids or sending 'em away or like, here's all the screens, or Here's all this so that you can like, be quiet and be away and you're just steeped in it right now, man.

[00:40:35] Curt: Like is is, is this normal? Is this like the everyday for you? I love it.

[00:40:38] Justin: Bro, that's why I was tempted, Kurt, to reschedule this call, but I know what you're about, and.

[00:40:47] Justin: It's like, no, I'm gonna do this. You know, like, I'm gonna just do it like this and I hope Kurt's not mad at me. Uh, but this is real life. And, and I heard a pastor say the other day, we teach kids to talk, then we tell 'em how to, we teach 'em how to be quiet. [00:41:00] And Jesus was like, bring the kids to me. And, um, I want my kids to be involved.

[00:41:05] Justin: Now, I, you know, I don't, uh, mean any disrespect to the po I think this is, Professional and it's, um, very important to me and I'm looking forward to connecting with you, but when I saw what you were about your podcast, it's like, I'm gonna just do it and see what happens. And, um, you know, um, I've learned that would I prefer my house to be clean when somebody comes over?

[00:41:26] Justin: Yes. But it's, this is what it what, so I appreciate you that man. Thank.

[00:41:34] Curt: That's one of the things that, um, has always bothered me. I'm like, okay, I need everything clean and organized and tidy. But what I found I was doing even over the last, like, up until a couple years ago, I was like cleaning behind the kids or cleaning behind my wife, and it wasn't leaving me any time to like actually play with the kids.

[00:41:52] Curt: Like, Hey, do you wanna play? I'm like, hold on, let me just clean up your toys from back here. And then we'd get there. Oh no, sorry, it's bedtime. And it's like, bro, what are you, ? [00:42:00] What are you focused on, dummy? Like, it doesn't make any sense. But it was all my discomfort. And I think that's something that I talk about a lot for the dads listening.

[00:42:07] Curt: It's like, dude, you do things, you father your children, usually from a, um, a motivation of Removing your own discomfort. And I think being able to sit with discomfort through exercise, through, you know, quiet time with the Lord, through all these, through doing hard stuff is so important. 'cause otherwise you're not gonna be able to handle the discomfort of having all these kids. Right? Like, do you, do you think the same?

[00:42:31] Justin: I, I love making myself uncomfortable, like going in the sun or working out or pushing myself for a workout, but I never thought, it's like you saying that. It's uncomfortable. Uncomfortable for me to put my phone down and play with my, you know, and, and go for a walk, fight through it, be with your kids, or it's uncomfortable for me to see a mess or something.

[00:42:55] Justin: I think that's really good and, um, uh, it's really good man. [00:43:00] I, I would, I would totally agree with that. And, um, there's something to be said about like tidiness and being clean and all that, teaching your kids. Usually as a parent, as a parent, I found that I'm, especially my wife, like we're going crazy over these messes and want to clean up, but these kids are like little, you know?

[00:43:22] Justin: Now obviously once they turn 13 or 12, it's like, okay, look, you want to be tidy. This is how you clean up. But, um, their minds are everywhere. They're like wired like crazy. so, yeah, I would totally, I've never thought about it that way though. Where I always looked at being uncomfortable was, Working out or pushing yourself or trying something new, but being uncomfortable with a mess,

[00:43:45] Justin: You know what I mean? So I can focus on my kids. I can. I can clean this up later. It's okay. You know, or being uncomfortable with somebody coming over. I. Like, Hey, sorry. There's a big mess. I don't, I don't judge people when their houses are it. You know [00:44:00] what? It makes me feel better about myself if I go over to somebody's house and there's a mess.

[00:44:04] Justin: It's like, oh wow.

[00:44:06] Curt: Totally. Yeah. I I hear that all the time, man. And, and that's like the discomfort thing also is, uh, so real with emotions. For a lot of dads, it's like, oh, the reason that you're y yelling or angry or whatever at your kids is because you are actually uncomfortable with the fact that they're sad or they're yelling, or they're making you potentially feel embarrassed. The discomfort emotionally causes you to lash out. And it's usually like an anger or my way or the highway or something that's going to drive a wedge between you and your kid. So I think it's, it's really useful for, for people listening, maybe just think about where you're uncomfortable, um, and just try to do things that are hard, intentionally even bite-size things like get up and do a cold shower, like whatever.

[00:44:48] Curt: Just do something to be uncomfortable and be like, okay, I can handle this so that when you want to yell, Take a deep breath and realize you got this. So anyway.

[00:44:57] Justin: Yeah. And I would, I would say to your point too, man, you just gave me [00:45:00] a good idea, is, um, like we block our time all the time and I'm not too good with it, but I'm, I see the rest of the world doing this. It's how can I block one hour off to really play with my kid? Because sometimes playing, uh, cops and robbers or whatever it is with your kid, it's like we're thinking about work or working out or whatever.

[00:45:23] Justin: How can I really, you know, really get with my kid? Um, you just made me think about that and it feels uncomfortable, but no, I'm gonna do it.

[00:45:31] Curt: Dude, it's super uncomfortable. So a couple things that we've done is, number one, it doesn't even need to be like an hour per kid, because that's like, oh my goodness, I'm never gonna get anything done. I've found like 10 minutes of one-on-one phone down, get on the ground, play with the kids for a little bit.

[00:45:46] Curt: Like after you come home from work, for example, if you just have, I know that probably takes like an hour for you 'cause you got, you know, five, five daughters. But, um, when I had like three sons, it took half an hour. That's a great way to do that on sort of like a most days [00:46:00] such that you're always building a little bit of time with them. And then what we've done is we have weekly dates with the kids one-on-one. So on Saturdays like I'll rotate, I'll take the oldest and the middle, then the youngest, and eventually my daughter, and then my wife. And so that just has like, uh, it has an effect that is so crazy because they anticipate it looking forward. Then they remember it for a few days looking back and the mood it creates is so much better and everyone's more connected. So that's a wave very practically that I've seen. Uh, we're able to do that because dude, same thing. I'm just like, okay, uh, I could be working right now. That's terrible. It's so bad. But I, I like what you said about also feeling better about yourself. 'cause as you're saying this, I'm like, oh yeah, me too, So thank you.

[00:46:45] Justin: It's really good, man. I.

[00:46:47] Curt: What, um, what else do you take away from Colorado? Like, this was a couple days we were in this mastermind in Colorado talking about all this kind of stuff we're talking about. Did you come away with like a, a, a learning or two specifically?

[00:46:58] Justin: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:00] Um, I would say that, uh, I, I'll say what I learned from Jeremy and what I it built on in Colorado was, um, there's nothing wrong with a father instilling his vision on his family. Um, and I think it's a skill and wisdom to see how each person in the family contributes. I think that's a skill.

[00:47:22] Justin: , but the goal is though, is to make that vision so beautiful. Not with a iron fist crushing anybody's soul, but to paint such a beautiful picture where they're like, yes, dad. Yes, husband. Yes, honey. This is the route we're going.

[00:47:35] Justin: Um, number two is that God is not in a rush. He's never. He's never a surprise. He's never in shock. That's so beautiful, man. Like, he's never in a rush with us. And our heavenly father is not in a rush with us. And we shouldn't rush our kids around and say, hurry to get in the car, or,

[00:47:54] Justin: um, or like, you know, I, and I'm talking to myself, man, like he's, he's there with [00:48:00] us.

[00:48:00] Justin: He stands with us. He's there now, and we should mimic him. . Um, I would say that I, I've been a believer for some time now, Kurt, longer than you have, and we hear about God's love, but do we really believe that? Do I really believe that, that he calls me as precious boy? I feel uncomfortable saying that. Like, precious boy, that's, that is crazy.

[00:48:21] Justin: If that is, if that is true, and I believe it's true, I want to know more about that love that he has. He loves me more than I love this little one right here.

[00:48:31] Curt: Oh, isn't that wild? It, it seems impossible, but everything becomes right. Ordered when I think that lands in your heart. That's been part of this journey for me too. It's like, what do you mean, like love, like that? What do you mean he rejoices over me? What do you mean? That the prodigal son is not so much about the son, but the father. That's, that's God looking at us, coming for us [00:49:00] when like I'm the lost sheep that he's coming for and like, oh my goodness, dude. It changes everything. Even having like a drip. 'cause I'm nowhere near like fully grasping that. Obviously I've got eternity for that, thank God. Um, but it's like even the drip of that in your heart. Just, I don't know, man. It's changing me, that's for sure.

[00:49:20] Justin: Yeah, it's, uh, it's changed me in the past and I feel like it's, it's changing me now. Thank God. And then I would say, man, we're, um, so I'll say this. It's, uh, an ancient prayer that Jewish people have prayed for centuries is the Shema hero, Israel, the Lord our God. The Lord I God is one. As for you, you shall love the Lord with all of your heart.

[00:49:44] Justin: All of your soul, all of your strength. It's in the book of Deuteronomy. And then Jesus, when he was asked what's the most important law he could, he quoted the Shama, but the word meo, which is strength in the Shama, was it means muchness in English. And it's a [00:50:00] literary device. That means like, it means like you can interpret the Shama how you want like, Love the Lord.

[00:50:07] Justin: Your rabbis would say love, the love, the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your soul, all of your money, all of your heart, all of your soul of your time. When Jesus quoted the Shema, he said, love the Lord's Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, all of your soul, all of your mind, all of your power.

[00:50:22] Justin: That's what Jesus said. And so I look at, like, he said, mine. That's incredible. And when, uh, John Tyson talked about the power of blessing, it's like these subconsciously we hear these things like, Kurt, you're not good enough to start a podcast, which you are. But like, you, you, you internalize it, like the power of blessing of what you say.

[00:50:43] Justin: And even like, I remember my daughter, she, uh, wanted to ride a ride. This, uh, This, uh, summer and she was like, daddy, I'm just not a good ride, ride goer. And I was like, cut it out. Don't you ever say that again. Get that outta your mind and crush it. You're great. [00:51:00] And we put these curses on ourselves that become trauma and it's not woo woo self-help.

[00:51:06] Justin: It is real. It is so real, man. The, the power of what we say and speak over our children, what we speak over ourself. And it's not for vanity. It's so we can be powerful witnesses and image bearers to God. That's what it's about. So those are my takeaways from Colorado.

[00:51:25] Curt: Let's go dude. Alright, well I know we're at the top of the hour. I don't wanna keep any longer. I do wanna do this again at some point though. Um.

[00:51:31] Justin: I won't.

[00:51:33] Curt: No, dude li like legitimately, I don't care if there's someone who's like this audio quality has children in the background. If that's you, you must not be a dad.

[00:51:43] Curt: So why are you listening to this podcast? Uh, anyway, I, I got more questions eventually, so I'd love to do this again at some point. Um, but where can I send people? Like, you got a bunch of stuff. Where do you want 'em go?

[00:51:55] Justin: Yeah. Um, you know, I would say, uh, [00:52:00] I would tell them to continue to watch your stuff. Do me a favor and do that. 'cause I think what you're doing is awesome. I would say check out the, uh, Bible project because, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with Tim Mackey. And, oh, Kurt, you gotta watch this stuff, bro.

[00:52:17] Justin: You gotta watch it.

[00:52:18] Curt: Okay. Writing it down.

[00:52:19] Justin: The Bible project. It is incredible, bro. Um, go to that watch, listen to their podcast, but go to their website first and see the videos. The podcast is way more in depth. And then I do believe that we've, uh, created a thing of beauty in the mom on a mission bar. It's the best tasting, healthiest, gluten-free bar on the planet.

[00:52:39] Justin: If you wanna buy 'em, I, I, I would love to ship them to Canada, man. A so,

[00:52:43] Curt: let's go You can enjoy 'em with a Tim Horton's. Double, double if you guys are up here with me. Uh, I had one by the way. And even though I'm not a mom, they were very good. Uh, and I love the attention to detail. The fact that they're circular, which means you're not mass produced, cutting them into squares and all the rest of the kind of [00:53:00] stuff.

[00:53:00] Curt: They're legit. Dads buy your wives. bars, uh, and I'll drop the link in the show notes. Dad work slash podcast, my brother. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate the time and, uh, we're gonna connect soon again. Appreciate you, man.

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