Curt Storring 0:00

Welcome to the Dad.Work podcast. My name is Curt Storring, your host and the founder of Dad.Work. This is episode number 62 conscious fatherhood deep presence and cultivating a deeply sensual sex life with my guest, Max Trombley. We go deep today talking about going all in on supporting our children as they explore their interests. Why it's okay to not have everything figured out as a dad as long as you're putting in the work. Recognizing joy is a vital component of life and the need to cultivate it. Third stage parenting and feeling deeply into the moment, recognizing that we have needs and exploring healthy ways to get the Met and maintaining a healthy, abundant and deeply sensual sex life while raising young children. Max Trombley is a men's work facilitator and conscious relationship coach based in New Orleans, Louisiana. You can find him online on Instagram at Max Trombley. That's MAX TROMBLEY or online at his website, ashiftinbeing.com. This was a great chat with Max. I really enjoyed this. I invited him on the podcast because he just had a wonderful Instagram post about how he was able to support his son, as his son took up things like fishing and just explored his own interests and what I got from Max in that post, you can check that out on Instagram to see what I mean was this deep presence and this desire to show up. And I really, really enjoyed that. And so this was a fun conversation. And I learned a lot in this from Max. Glad to have him on. And guys, this is a great one to listen to. So if you have been enjoying this podcast, if you get something out of this podcast, would you take just a few seconds, go into the podcast app on Apple, scroll down and leave us a rating or a review. If you could do that it might take five seconds for a rating or 35 seconds for a review. And man it would help get this in the hands of more fathers who need this type of work in their lives to show up better as men, partners and fathers. That's it for now. Let's jump into Episode number 62 here with Max Trombley. Here we go.

Dads, welcome to the Dad.Work Podcast. I'm here with Max Trombley. And I have seen you max on Instagram. I don't know where we even got connected. But I came across you actually you were one of my earlier followers. That's what it was. And I reached out and I was just like, man, beautiful photography. I love what I'm seeing with you. And then I saw a post on Instagram. And it just like hit me so hard that I needed to have you on to see how you have cultivated the sort of conscious awareness and fatherhood. So first of all, welcome. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate your time.

Max Trombly 2:31

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Curt Storring 2:33

Yeah, beautiful. So I let me let me just start if I may, by reading a few things that you wrote in this post, and then sort of ask you to just dive a little bit deeper. As we get into this, like conscious fatherhood idea. Because it was a picture of you and your son, I believe on a lake and he was fishing. And I am. Yeah. A beautiful picture, too, by the way that sort of caught me into it. But I'm gonna read just briefly, not all of it. But you said boys need something really specific from their fathers. You've been in men's work long enough to know that men all across the world, what they received or didn't receive from their father, and the impact these things have had on us as men, and that you are trying, and this is me now telling you what you're saying, you're trying to be the best kind of father that feels your son's interests and desires, and leads 100% of supporting his growth as a young boy, you notice that some of them only last a month or two, but you're attentive and open to whatever emerges. And giving him a foundation of feeling loved and supported the deepest level. And one of the things that I loved here is that you're going to teach him to be an outdoorsman. And you have no idea how to do those things yet. And I love that part. And you're going to learn to serve Him. And it helps to bring him through young adulthood responsibly by building up his skills and interest. So he's self motivated to continue pursuing them as a young adult. And that's what this is about. And you say the critical that's the critical piece, teaching him to seek and discover and try things. And to know that he is loved and supported in doing so promotes mastery and practice as well. But like the the general thought behind all this is like, holy shit, dude, you're so tapped in to feeling him. So, can we go there? How because this for me, I was a really shitty dad for the first three, four or five years, which is why this project exists. And it and it sounds like you've just got this level of awareness that I aspire to. So where did this come from?

Max Trombly 4:35

Well, first of all, thank you. It's an honor to to feel that from you. And, you know, the truth is, you know, I think anyone on a self self work path, you start to uncover things from your own childhood, your own history, your relationship to your parents, your mom, your dad. And something that I struggled with as a younger child is that there was a misalignment with my father and I Now, I've done a lot of reconciliation work and him and I get along great these days, so everything is good. But there was a big pocket of my life where we just didn't. We didn't understand each other. And as a kid, it was like, he doesn't understand me, right? There's this feeling. And, you know, when I really looked into my own childhood wounds, I think one of the biggest wounds was that I was excited, I was joyful. I was creative. And I had all these desires in life. And yet my, my father really didn't know, like, notice, support them. You know, he had his own things. He was, he's a businessman, and he was incredibly immersed in business. So, you know, we would drop into these moments together. But over the course of my life, there were things that emerged from me, that he just couldn't see value in. You know, I was a musician for a long time, and I played in bands and the whole time, like, this is like a 14 year period. He never really took it seriously. He was like, when are you going to do something with your life, blah, blah. And I'm like, Dad, I own a recording studio. I'm touring with a band, like, What are you talking about? And that's sort of just an example of like, he never really felt how important my things were to me. And because of that, I couldn't hear him when he was making suggestions because I didn't trust his leadership, because he wasn't feeling me. So, you know, I met my son when he was three. My wife, Kelly, she already had him. And so when he came in, he was he's a three year old and I was confronted immediately with, okay, I'm now at that like, period today. Like, this is like, as soon as I realized this woman was, you know, a hell yes. You know, I was dating for like, a year trying to find really a mom to my own kids. And I found this wonderful mother. The day I realized that was a yes, I was like, and now I'm adapt, just like that. And so really, from that place, I was doing some work in a couple different men's groups. It was from that place that I started to say, what does it mean? Like? What does it mean to be a father? Like, what do I need to know? And what do I need to bring, so that I can be a father that inspires my son, and helps lead my son, but also from a place of knowing my son? Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, my own wounds coupled with like, what is leadership as a father? What does that mean?

Curt Storring 7:26

Right. Okay, so from a place of starting with, like, how did I feel as a child? Yeah, and accessing all of that the wounds and everything else that comes up with it, and taking the active approach into figuring out like, what is even leadership? Yeah, that's, that's like the the two pieces that I'm now working with, because I just personally, was the biggest issue in my kid's life for the first three to five years, because I was out of control. I was not healed, I was not integrated. I hadn't fully done my work. And now that I feel calm, confident, you know, leader in most areas of my life, I gotta go like, Oh, shit, what do I need to do now to lead to grow them into good men? And so like, on your journey, what are some of the things that you see being important on this? Have you have you sort of gone there?

Max Trombly 8:16

Yeah, I mean, so the biggest thing, and I think this is what you were, you know, what inspired you to have me on your podcast is really just noticing my son what he's interested in, right. And, you know, I noticed pretty early on that he had an interest in fishing. And I'm not a great fisherman, but I have some degree of skill. I've caught some fish in my life. And I thought, Okay, let's try this. And there's been some other things that we've tried, but this one really stuck. And, you know, I think the thing for me was just staying attentive to like, where's he at? Is he still interested? Is it a waning interest? And I would try different things. Like I'd put on a fishing video of like a how to like how to catch a tuna, right? And like to see like, is how interested it is. And he's obsessed, like, he loves fishing, he'll watch fishing channels. He's telling me about all these different fish all the time. He schools me on things like regularly. And, you know, I just thought, This is it. This is what I got to follow. And the day he decides fishing is in his thing, great. I don't have to push it further. This isn't his life purpose. But what else is emerging at the same time, right. So, you know, there's another thing where he like, for years has been asking to play Minecraft, right. And I grew up in a family where we didn't have really much of a video game relationship. I had some friends that had like, you know, the first Nintendo and I played some video games. But I also had some friends who grew up with video games. And I sort of, I see that they can be fun, and they can be valuable. But there's also a little bit of pause around screen time and diving into games. And so I sort of held back a little bit on this interest, and he kept bringing it up. He's like, hey, when can I play Minecraft? When can I play this game? And, you know, recently I said, What's my resistance? You know, why am I resisting something? And it's because I have beliefs and I have ideas but also is there a way through This idea where it can be something that he can enjoy and explore in a healthy way. And so I think that what I'm kind of bringing up here is staying attentive to what his desires are and not shutting them down due to my beliefs, but instead kind of engaging them and just kind of being with him in the space. So I had never played Minecraft in my life. And like a couple weeks ago, I was like, Alright, let me see what this is all about. And I just like played it for a couple days just to see like, is his age, the right age for it? What's going on, I know, there's an online component with other people on chat. And once I realized, you could turn that off, and it could be like a solo game, I was like, Okay, there's like a safe space I can create in here and letting him explore it. And then also, like he kept running up against, like, I don't know what I'm doing in this game. So I like spent some time with it myself to try to figure it out. And then I'm teaching him. And all of this is to say, like, I don't know what his interests are going to be. And as they emerge, all I can do is try to support them from the best of my ability, which in some cases might be not, I might have virtually no ability to catch a fish in city park where I live, but we can try. And we can look it up online, and we can try to figure it out together. And if we have complete failure and no success, we can find another pond and, you know, keep trying. And that's the gold, right? It's not working, but we can try something else. Or like, here's how we could try doing it, you know, just being with him in the learning experience to help lead the learning experience, not just like, yeah, go fish. That's great. So I guess that's what I mean by leadership is like, How can I jump in his playground and help show them how to use these tools or how to try these things. So that he finds an expansive space?

Curt Storring 11:43

I'm feeling this level of support that must come to him with you just being there. Because it feels like it doesn't matter what the thing is, but you're like on a team, and there's no way for him to miss that with what you're saying here. And that's beautiful, man.

Max Trombly 12:00

Yeah, yeah, totally. And it lets me be a kid too. I get to just play. So it's like, we're homeboys just hanging out building forts and things, you know, oh,

Curt Storring 12:07

yeah, that is missing so much, man. Like, I even have a trouble doing that. And it's this disconnect, I think between, you know, the inner child who had to grow up really quickly, if I'm just sort of processing myself here, and not being allowed to play. And that's the trouble that I have. And so how can I get into that? That's my own work. And a question that came up for me on especially with video games, because I got the same struggle. It's like, I played them too much growing up, and I saw it being detrimental. And I really try to limit screen time now. And what if they have a desire for something that is not like, you know, it's not going to be good? If it gets out of hand? How do you create the boundaries while allowing the freedom of exploration?

Max Trombly 12:48

Yeah, that's a really great question. And that's kind of what I'm working with right now. And I mean, you know, it's interesting, because especially with this added layer of like, working from home and Pandemic life, like, my kid is currently virtual schooling and like, in between all his classes, like, how can I be doing my work? While I need to serve Him in moments? And it's like, this lean to, like, just, you can use the tablet for like, an hour while I'm on like, a meeting or like something else, you know? And, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, finding the balance is definitely an art. And I think part of it is a felt thing, right? So just noticing, like, Where's his energy, and what needs to happen, like, if he's on the tablet, for too much of the day, his energy is through the roof, like after dinner and through the night, because he just has no expressed energy. So really finding the energetic balance, and, you know, trying to express physical energy, in addition to Leighton screentime. You know, it's part of it. And I think the other part too, is just kind of recognizing, like recognizing his relationship to the tablet or to the games, right? And when it's bedtime, for example, if he has a moment where it's like, okay, you know, like, the five minutes is up, and like, it's time to, like, move on. If there's like, a lot of like, extreme behavior in that moment, then that's a little bit of a, I don't want to say red flag, but there's like, it's a thing that gives me pause because it's like, okay, there's kind of like, I don't know, there's something else there that, you know, and like, I guess, part of this is I'm figuring it out now, like, what is this look like? How can we have a more healthy relationship to these these things? And, you know, it's an exploration. And, you know, he's seven, and, you know, we're figuring it out as an airplane going overhead. Sorry, that's loud. But yeah, you know, it's just a it's just an exploration. And I think the thing is not to judge or not to believe that it's the end of the world if there's too much of something. Because you can always adjust, like short of losing an arm and a leg everything is like you can always move back and forth into things like let's say there's too much screen time last week. We can adjust next week. Yes.

Curt Storring 14:53

Oh, man. This is so good. The the figuring out along the way and just being present with that. Like, oh man, there's so much Like my early resistance was like, I have to control this, and I can't control it. And why do I do? And the reaction to needing to control brought me a ton of suffering? So it's having all the resistance. Yeah, exactly. And the the figuring it out attitude is so good. But my question now, it's like, how the hell can you sit in that with this, like peace, and grace. And what this is leading to is like, what has been your journey? Because I am not to be prescriptive to the men listening, but like, what have you done to really sit? And notice, because there was so much awareness in what you are saying here. And I think we can all do well to cultivate more awareness. So could you give us like, a little bit of info on what your story has been?

Max Trombly 15:45

Yeah, totally. Um, you know, let me start by saying that I'm a man on a path, and I'm not perfect. And so as a dad, I fuck up all the time. And I learned from it, and I pivot. And so I just want to say that first because I don't want any of your listeners to think, Oh, this guy's got it all together. I mean, I've got some things together, for sure. And I have some understandings. But also, like, we're all just doing our best, you know, my dad is 75. And he's still figuring shit out, especially around love. Like he's, he just fell in love again, for the first time, in a long time. And it's like, no matter how old we are, or where we are, in our path, we're always gonna adjust, we're gonna figure things out. But anyway, you know, you asked about my own path. I, the best way I can describe this is that, you know, I had a period, my childhood was great. I had a great family growing up, everything was good. And then, you know, my mom got sick when I was young. And so she was sick for a long time, like 10 years, and then she passed away. So it was a teenager that had lost his mom. And from that place was a lot of darkness, a lot of pain. I was in punk rock bands, I was angry for a long time. And, you know, I went through a path that, you know, I, I was pursuing my life, and I got into a relationship, and I got married. And it's one of those quintessential, like trauma bonded, you know, relationships where like two people with deep unprocessed wounds come together. And, you know, we were together for 10 years, and I only bring this up to say, like, I have a path through really challenging. You know, it's a challenging life path, that throughout it, you know, I was always guided by this resilience to figure it out. Like, I always wanted to find deep love and peace, and just be like, at ease within my body. And so, you know, I had a 10 year marriage that I that marriage came to an end. And this is really where the story begins, which is that I hit a wall, I realized I hadn't been doing things, right. I didn't understand how to find love. That was open and beautiful and easy, and, and generative. And so I went through a divorce and I immediately after was like, What do I need to do right now? Like, what do I need to shed? And how do I need to like reawaken myself, and so I guess was, would have been 2017. So a couple things happened here, one, around the end of my marriage, I started a men's group, sort of not even aware that men's work was a thing. I just I started learning about meditation, mindfulness, self awareness, consciousness, breath work. And I was like, Man, I want to like practice these things. And I want to work with men. Because men needed to I need it. Like, we're not talking about it. So I started a men's group in 2015, I guess maybe in the winter, between 15 and 16. So during the first year of my men's work, that was the last year of my marriage. And so I was sort of immersing in self work as I was going through this process of like, decoupling my relationship and then exploring like, what, what's next? Like? I'm 35 at this point, not not today. But at that point, I was like, 35. And I was like, you know, how do I date in my mid 30s? How do I date to find someone that I can start a family with soon, because I don't want to be having kids when I'm like, 47. So in this exploration, a couple things happened. First of all, an old friend of mine from high school, I really, really great, like one of my oldest friends, and she reached out to me, and she just sent me like a text. She was like, Burning Man, question mark. And I was like, Fuck, yeah. And I'll bring up this is important, and I'll bring up why in a minute. But the other thing that I did is I slowed down. And I started to realize how much relationships were my attempt at filling a void in my own heart. And so after my divorce, I had no idea that there was such a thing as a feminine cleanse or like any of the conscious terminology around taking a break from relating, but I was like, I need to take six months off and just not pursue sex or love or attention. So I took six months off from dating, and I started to realize how often my impulse to seek validation through women popped up and the second thing is around like seven months in I found myself on the playa at Burning Man. And something really interesting I don't know if you've ever been to Burning Man. It's you know, it's a wild event and Something that occurred was at like two o'clock in the morning, one night, I was hanging off the side of a gigantic Bumblebee that was shooting fire, and it's playing loud music. And I felt like a kid. And I realized in that moment, I was like, I have been missing joy. Like this is just pure joy, and play. And so for the rest of that week, I was out there just like, what is joy? Like, what is this experience that I haven't had in my life probably in 20 years. And that's really one of the biggest things right there is this recognition of joy as an important factor in life, and the need to cultivate it for myself as a grown adult. So, you know, this is a long winded little piece here, but I left that year, I guess that would have been 2018 or 19 2018, I guess, I left that year, knowing two things. The next person I got into a real deep relationship with had to be someone that knew how to cultivate love, from a deeper, wider level, had a degree of self awareness, and was willing to use a relationship as an expansive thing of practice, and not just a set it and we go, right. So relationship as practice. And the other thing I realized is that I needed to pursue more creative and joyful pursuits for myself, right? I couldn't live a life of boredom. I couldn't live a life and just grind and work all the time, I had to find some joy.

And so part of what I'm doing as a dad, as I'm finding joy with my son, you know, like fishing, it's not really even about catching fish. Really, these days? It's more about like getting a fishing line unstuck from a tree or like, untangle, but it doesn't matter. Yeah. Because it's like hilarious, right. And also, like, the relationship I have with my wife, one of our founding like, principles of the relationship is humor. And we just like we mess with each other all the time. It's just like always, like, we're just being playful all the time. And it's such a great self, the seriousness of life and the difficulty in life, right when when shits hitting the fan, and it's all fucked up. And like, our baseline is to go to joy and like joking with each other. Like, what an easy way to relax into the moment. So that's the thing like myself work path has been about like, re finding joy, and learning how to be more conscious and slowing down, slowing down when I was dating, slowing down in any moment where I realized my nervous system is getting wound up, or my body's raising a template, there's a temperature, you know, reaction. And it doesn't always work. But yeah, like, what's this moment really need? Surely not my like, trauma induced like reactionary mind, you know, not the monkey mind what it needs is something deeper. And so that's where this all came from, is how do I serve my son? Part of it is we climb trees together. Part of it is we fish together. You know, part of it is I learned how to play Minecraft, so I can teach them how to build a house and survive a night.

Curt Storring 23:00

You know, beautiful, man. I love that. Wow. Well, that is amazing. And I love the joy piece, because I love to dive into the stories of the dads who come on here. And just what is your journey, Ben, there has been a lot of talk about joy. And that is something I know, is missing in my life. And that's why I play hockey. Yeah, that's why, you know, we also do like basically the same sort of thing like humor, and I won't say joy, because that would be inauthentic. But like, whatever, I whatever, I think that looks like not having really known that in my life. That's the same sort of thing with my wife and I it's like, I will always go to, like, let's line up. Like, let's just be ridiculous. I'm gonna say, stupid movie quote, cuz that's my thing. Yeah. So like, roll her eyes. And then like, my kids start doing it. It's like, yes, yeah, no, this is what it's magic.

Max Trombly 23:49

Right? Well, you're, it's, it's, you're provoking an opening, right? You're utilizing lightness to provoke an opening in your family. And that really is like, what joy is ultimately is it's like a, it's an impulse of openness that comes through you. And that's really the critical thing. Like, in life, we can only serve the world from a place of openness. If we're serving from closure, then we're not really serving anything. We're just closing and we're creating a ripple of closure. So, yeah, joy, it's great. It's incredibly important. You know,

Curt Storring 24:19

yeah, yeah, actually, I did a process in men's group like three years ago now. And we were supposed to evoke the emotions of shame, anger, and joy and sadness, I think and all of these other ones came easily and the thing that I found joy in was the fact that I had healed enough to not feel like the biggest piece of shit in the world. So just to let dads out there know if the if the bar by which you are measuring this is very low like it was for me find that like where look at the gain instead of the gap. I think this is like a business term or whatever, some dudes, right? So yeah, you go like the gap. If you're focused on the gap, it's like where I am, where I want to be. And it's like, oh shit, there's so much to do. But if you're focusing on the gain, it's like, look where I was, and where I now am. And when I looked at the gain in my life, I was like, exuberant, like, just joyful and like standing up. And I was like, yes, that's amazing. And I just lived it. So even finding that within your own path can be powerful in my experience. So and the thing that you said about relationship is practice is really cool. I love that. I want to dive into that. And I also wonder if you see fatherhood as practice, oh, yeah, absolutely. Apps. Let's go there. Let's go there. What does that look like to you?

Max Trombly 25:39

Well, first of all, life is practice. But yeah, so fatherhood is practice. I mean, fatherhood is the gift that keeps giving if you want to develop your consciousness, literally every single day, you're going to have experience after experience, where you are being challenged to stay present, and stay open, or collapse into your neurosis. It's just the way it is. And, you know, as I've been doing self work. For a while, before I had kids, you know, there's a lot of space, a space to explore and space to really like, practice or just like, you know, it's, it's not to say, think like, life's not easier, harder, like life is just what it is, no matter where we're at. But when you have kids, you certainly have more opportunities to practice. And what that looks like is, you know, if my son is triggering me with bad behavior, you know, Can I respond from a place that I can explain this? Are you familiar with David data by chance?

Curt Storring 26:32

Yeah, that's where I have derived a lot of my own sort of learnings and teachings from Hi,

Max Trombly 26:36

great, alright, so you know, the the idea of first, second and third stage and for your listeners, like first stage is when you're just operating from your own needs and wants. Second stage would be like a negotiation with whoever you're working with in a situation, including like, the world, your business, your partner, your kids, whatever, or yourself. And third stage is serving from a deeper place where ultimately you're not even playing on the same playing field, you're basically serving the moment from something completely out of left field, that brings the moment back to openness. Right? And so a lot of my practice is really around like, what is this moment really need? Like? Do I need to negotiate with my son about his behavior? Or should I just like, Go wrestle them? Should I go, like, tackle him right now? And like, throw him on the couch? And, like, take a look? Yes. You know, and, and the same thing goes for my wife. I mean, come that we can come back to that in a second. But like, are we having a conversation? Or should I just like, take a look, or like, flirt with her or like, growl in her ear? And, you know, whisper nasty, like, dirty shit? And like, you know, sorry, if there's any like, you know, you probably all have dads. So we're good. But

Curt Storring 27:37

it's all dads. Yeah.

Max Trombly 27:38

Yeah. No, but getting back to the guest. So you know, fatherhood is practice. So today was a day, what did I win? Where can I do better? Right? And then we have tomorrow, and then tomorrow, can I do better? If this moment re emerges? Can I approach it differently? Is there something I can do to serve my son differently? Tomorrow, where the patterns that are in my relationship with my kids don't continue? If they're not positive patterns? So yeah, that is, I hope that answers your question. Yeah.

Curt Storring 28:05

Yeah. And the thing that's coming up for me and I've experienced this myself is that it requires some level of awareness. Because when shit hits the fan, a lot of guys who have not experienced the fact that you even can sort of wake up, if you will, we'll just go to reaction, and then it's shed and like, Parenting is hard. And being a dad, no one expected and relationships falling apart. And life is miserable. And if you simply reflect or allow your mind to go, oh, maybe I can notice something here. Maybe it takes learning to meditate. Maybe it takes sitting for 1015 minutes in stillness, doing nothing. Maybe it's a walk in the forest, whatever that mindful attention. Practice is for you, that was fundamental in my ability to do what you're saying, and to feel into the moment because if you can't feel, how are you gonna feel into the moment? Can you talk to that? Like, what have your what's been your mindfulness practice journey?

Max Trombly 29:03

Yeah, that's a really, really solid point. And I often forget about, you know, what, really, what started all of this for me. And, you know, I read years ago, I think, 2015, I read the power of now. And at her toes book, and I realized that there's this thing, where like, you can observe what your mind is doing. And you can like, actually, you can like, observe how you feel in any given moment. I didn't know this. I mean, it seems pretty easy to like, it's funny, like, once you once you become somewhat aware of these things. It's like, oh, yeah, obviously. But like, really, I think there was a point where I was like, what? Like, I can just sit here. Like, I can recognize I'm reading a book, I'm having a reaction to the idea that I'm reading and it's awesome. Like, that's an observation of my truth. And so that really was a foundational piece for me is just realizing that there's like this ability to pay attention to your mind. You are not your mind. Your mind exists, but you're not that. So starting with that Starting a men's group, having conversations about it, and then approaching a divorce and the end of a relationship. And I just realized, like, what, what's really going on in this relationship, and I started going for walks, I was living in central Virginia at the time, and I just started walking on, I lived on some farmland, and I would just go and walk. And I gave myself something to actually do on these walks, I would look for feathers, like just for, like rare items that I could find on the ground. So I stayed focused to where my feet were going. And I would just go on these walks, and I would breathe. And I would just kind of say, like, what's really going on in my life right now? Like, what's happening? What do I believe about my partner? What do I believe about myself? We, you know, what are my needs in this moment? What needs are being met, what are what's not being met. So I really took a grand stock of my life at that time, through this lens of awareness. And through this practice of walking, just walking and finding things I found, like 1000s of feathers, you know, over the course of like a year and a half, I found arrowheads, like on a farm, I found all these shark's teeth on a beach. Like, I was just finding things everywhere, because I was just in this practice of like, slowing down my walk, breathing deeper, and just feeling what my moment was feeling. What do I feel in my body? What do I notice in my thoughts? So that's how it all started. And I think after you do something like that, for a long enough time, it does open up some space, and maybe not in the moment of being triggered. But like, certainly after, like, what happened just now, or what happened yesterday, you know, this awareness that something an event occurred, and you can look at it, you know, what's the story in belief that's affecting my reactions? What is what do I really want out of this situation, like being able to take kind of a referential thought structure and place it on in the moments you're going through? That's been like, incredibly important. You know, and then, you know, being able to bring that to my relationship to my partner, or, you know, some degree of it to my kid, but he's still young. And, you know, these existential questions don't exactly make any sense. Yeah. But yeah, I hope that answered your question. Just around, you know, my own mindfulness path. Yeah, it was done. That's

Curt Storring 32:14

exactly. That's exactly what I was going for. And I'd same sort of thing for me. I actually stumbled across, I'll say, meditation, mindful awareness, because some entrepreneur who was sort of teaching this business I was running. He's like, Oh, I've been meditating. And I'm more productive. And me thinking like productivity suite. It's like, I'm gonna meditate. Yeah, I started. And I did it with the headspace app at first. And I noticed about seven to 10 days in, I didn't yell at my son, when I normally would have the same sort of thing with you. I was like, Oh, shit, there's something here. What do you mean, I could not do this, if I could, like, see what was happening as it was happening. And that was fundamental. And that just like, dove in full head. And I have not stopped since because it has continued to sharpen my ability to feel into things. And then notice when things happen that we're not being felt into. Yeah,

Max Trombly 33:09

yeah, totally. It's the gift that keeps on giving. I mean, once you have some degree of awareness, and you expand it further and further, and you expand it into different places, like how am parenting how I'm being a dad, how I'm being a partner, or lover, how I'm being a son to my father, and what that looks like, I mean, every even even my business, like I have a business partner, you know, how I'm being a partner to them, like, once you realize you have some sovereignity of thought in that space. And then variable action, like you can take different actions. It's incredibly in power. And it's life changing, honestly.

Curt Storring 33:42

Yeah, it is. One of the things that you said about relationship was like, am I getting my needs met? And I love this kind of thing. Because, man, there are only too many dads that I talked to who are like, you know, the marriage is sort of stale. And we're just focused on the kids like, it's okay. It's just fine. Or like, you know, they're getting divorced, or they're not actually like breathing their masculine, penetrative energy into their wives or their partners. And it's like, Well, okay, can you Let's go there. What about getting needs met? is important in relationship? And how can we honor that?

Max Trombly 34:18

So first of all, just speaking on the self, without relationship without parenting the self, right? If you're not getting your needs met, then you're ultimately operating from a void, or from a wound or from a place of like, I'm not okay. And so if you make decisions from that place, they're not the right decision. Because they're going to be decisions that are essentially based on like, if somebody is drowning, and you're asking them to make business decisions, like, they're not going to make good decisions. You know what I mean? And, you know, if you're, if your needs aren't being met, it's not always like you're drowning, but it kind of can be, you know, especially it depends on what your needs are. And a lot of people don't even realize they have needs. So there's needs, there's desires, some needs or core needs. A lot of those have to to do with love and safety and security, and yeah, so recognizing that we have needs as an individual is the first thing within relationship. What are your needs? Like? What are your needs within love, and this thing you brought up like, you know, people that are like, Oh, my relationships kind of stale, but we're just focusing on the kids. Like that's not a winning game. It's not, your kids are going to feel the staleness, ultimately, the staleness is going to create resistance and aggression, you know, resentment, bitterness. It's funny, I told my wife I was, I was meeting with you on this podcast, and she checked out your feed. And I think like, just two days ago, or something, you had something about, like, the wife and like, really valuing your wife, I forget, I forget what like the

Curt Storring 35:42

would post it was like, basically, why first kids second. Yeah, very simplified. It's super

Max Trombly 35:47

simple. And this is actually the most critical thing here, which is if your relationship with your partner isn't great, your kids are going to be at the effect of that. And so like, really, it is like your partner first for the sake of your kids. Otherwise, if it's your kids first and your partnership is failing, like that, actually is not a benefit to your children at all. So anyone that's in partnership really should be focusing on like creating the most alive and then delightful and wonderful and need nourishing relationships. They can always, like always, like, not just like, next week for a weekend during a retreat, like, what does your wife need? What is your husband need? What are your what is it doesn't even matter what your partnership is like? What are the needs of you and your partner, and how can you fill them? It's critically important, man. It's great. Great. Yeah. Yeah, it's great that you posted that. Yeah, thank

Curt Storring 36:41

you, man. And that's so funny. Now I'm going like, I feel this like, I don't know, almost this wonder and this almost worry come up going like, Oh, no other people are going to see my stuff that's so interesting, like real people. As I as I'm seeing this is total tangent, by the way, as I'm thinking about my Instagram, whatever, like, I'm, like, 10,000 people following, which is so amazing. And I noticed that it divorces me from seeing the human on the other side at numbers like that. Yeah. And so to get the feedback that your wife a real human being would have looked at it and gone. Why the fuck are you talking to this guy? Like, that's real funny right now. Yeah, that's so interesting. So first of all, thank you for bringing that up. And just like, not like it was intentional, necessarily, but like, I feel something. And I'm just perhaps even saying that to give an example of how you can notice in the moment, because that's totally real for me right now. But the the needed relationship, what about this, I learned, after a long time, that my needs in relationship didn't need to be met, but that I was allowed to have them. And I should still express them. And if they're not being met, there's conversation to have. But I hear from a lot of guys who say, well, I need to have sex, like three times a week, and she's not giving it to me. So like, my needs are being met, bro. And it's like, look, in some ways, there's conversations around that. And on the other side of things I've experienced, and I'm curious if you have to the like, healthy expression of needs, is to state them, and drop expectation of them being met, and then feel with whatever comes through that is up in your experience.

Max Trombly 38:18

It That's so great. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, to live from a place of like, I have a need, and that's all like that alone, can help you feel a degree of filling that need to just be as that need. Like, I need love. Just like that's it. That's a truth. For me, I need love. And I need love through sexual intimacy through loving awareness and touch. And you know, basically all the love languages are my love language. But, you know, like, I need love, that's a need. And like, I can just be as an individual, I can just be like, I need love, and where can I cultivate self love, first of all, and, you know, if there's, if there is a relational piece, like, you know, you brought up like, the hypothetical guy that like, I need to have sex three times a week, what's underneath that? Like, what is it about sex that you need? Because ultimately, there's a deeper truth to that statement, and it is a core need, most likely, I mean, sex. Sex is fun, it's great. It's enjoyable. And beneath that it's union. It's connection. It's deep, like it's deep feeling of each other. And being felt right and being experienced. And I would argue that there is a deep core need underneath that, that actually has nothing to do with sex three times a week. And and what does that need? And then can you just sit as that need? And yeah, I think it's great. It's, it's a great exploration. And yeah, you do bring up a really interesting point, which is, ultimately, we can't rely on anyone to fulfill our needs. If we can't, one recognize them ourselves and two, to some degree, relax the need for them to be fulfilled. Right? Yeah, desire is a lot more attractive than neediness.

Curt Storring 39:59

Oh, that's great. Yeah, I really love that. It's like the it's the open version, as you're saying before the openness of that, who, man, okay, this is a great way to segue then into maintaining a healthy and abundant and deeply sensual sex life while raising young children. That's your quote, as one of the things that you'd love to chat about, and is all about this. So, like, we've got a pretty good groundwork, I think in terms of needs and conscious communication and all that kind of stuff. Take us from here.

Max Trombly 40:28

Yeah, this is I mean, this is ultimately like one of the foundational practices in my life. And one of the things I find most important, what I'll say is that I was in a 10 year marriage that had some difficulty with intimacy, we kind of lost our way. I spent a couple years being polyamorous and exploring different ways of being what sexuality meant to me and why. And then when I came back to a monogamous relationship, I'm currently monogamous. And I have a wife. And I just knew I was like, You know what I need? I have a core need of having a physically intimate relationship. And what it's about is, it's about love. It's about knowing my partner's a hell yes. To me, as an individual, which ultimately, like is security. When there's when there's closure sexually in my relationship, I start to notice the part of me that's like, Is there something wrong? Like, what is she feeling? Like? You know, what I mean, you know, sex to me is, is it's a lot of things. And there's a big kind of, there's a big package around what is sex, right, but just getting into how to create a relationship of abundant, fiery, great passionate sex when you have kids. First of all, it's got to be a two way commitment. My wife is a hell yes to this, I'm a hell yes to it. So there's that, which makes it easier. The second thing is, it's energy. It's all just energy. If you think as a guy that you have a right to it, you're fucked. You have to be in practice with it with the energy of creating sexual tension. You know, there's the polarity is something that's talked a lot about, it's about, you know, for any of your listeners that might not know, it's, you know, what energy can you bring to your relationship that provokes your partner's energy to rise, specifically, in this case, within sexual energy. And, you know, there's the basic concept of foreplay. And I'm sure most men understand that foreplay is valuable. It's not just valuable for the 10 minutes before you have sex, but like for the entire day. And what I'm saying is like, you know, if I touch my wife, like, in the kitchen, the kitchen is a perfect example. Because it's, my kids are always in the family room doing things. And so if I catch her in the kitchen, can I run up and like, grab her in a certain way that like, turns her body on a little bit? Maybe it's something I say, maybe it's a sound I make, maybe it's a way I touch her. And all of that leads into this, this, I was on a podcast recently. And I described it as like a polarity ball. Like it's a it's like a ball that's in between you guys. And it's a fireball, right? And so how dim or how bright is the fireball of energy between you and maintaining it, you know. So, I add a baseline, I would say that, you know, maintaining a great sex life, while you have kids is ultimately a practice of intention. And it's about finding moments that you can just inject really good strong energy that provokes your partner's energy to grow. And then doing it, and doing it in ways that are fucking hot and exciting and fun. I travel a lot. And so, you know, like, when I when I travel for different events that I'm involved in, you know, I'll be like, hey, you know, send me a hot picture, like, tomorrow by like, tomorrow morning, you know, I'll just give her these little challenges. And she'll feel that as my desire for her, which ultimately, even from 1000 miles away, creates an energy in her body. Or when I'm in the house, like, things are going crazy, and the kids are on fire and everything's blowing up, like, I'll look at her. And I'll just give her a glance that she feels all through her body, because she knows what that glance is. And so it's just like, yeah, and the most bizarre moments, you can bring a piece that like, shatters the leg, like whatever's happening, because it's powerful. Sexual Energy is incredibly powerful. It's amazing. There's like, ancient schools of sexual energy, like, you know, the Mystery Schools of like Egypt and Greece. And it's like, this has been studied for 1000s of years, sexual energy is probably more powerful than anything. And I would argue the reason that, like we have a patriarchal system is ultimately Because women's sexual power is the most powerful thing in the world. So we developed systems where like, men were in control, because we lost control. As soon as women were in control. That's what I would. That's what I would argue, but But yeah, sexual energy is amazing. It's incredible. And it can, it can influence your vitality as a father, right? If my relationship is great, and I feel really great, like sexually, like, I'm going to hell yet everything else that's going on my son's having a fucking meltdown. But it's like, my wife's hitting on me. I'm like, Cool. I can handle this. You know, totally. not that serious. Everything's great. I'm gonna get laid. This kid's great. He's fine. He's having a hard time. Let's fuckin help them do something. Man. It's kind of a funny way to put it but it's not a true

Curt Storring 44:52

yeah, no, I agree. wholeheartedly, man, and everything that came from that is like this conscious awareness again. Yeah, it's like, can you just show up? In the moment, intentionally, which is a great word to use here, because we can feel as dads as though it's out of control, there's so much shit going on. And it's like, oh, I either don't have the time, or she might reject me. And there's all this like, I mean, this is perhaps a separate point, but repression. And society is not helping that thanks very much. But it's like, what you just said, is basically to consciously put the intention out that, like, I want you, this is important to me, we're going to make it work with whatever time is available, even if it takes three days in the lead up to actually having sex. Yeah, you know, like, that's, that's okay. And it's being able to find, at least in my experience, the meaningful ness and the intimacy in the lead up, not just the act of penetration. That's been like a game changer, right? Because it elevates, like you said, if you have days of this, like sexual energy, oscillating, and you're passing the ball back and forth, and then it happens, that's last, finally, the kids are asleep before 10 o'clock, and he's like, I'm not asleep. And, and then you just you can, you can consciously couple, so much nicer if the intention is there. And the intention to be sort of a consciously sexual being is there and I think, please, again, this is me, that took a while to get to, because it's like, whatever. In my family system, it was like not okay to talk about that. I even remember, like my kids now, they're like, 979, and seven, the ones in school at least. And they're telling me about like their crushes. And I was like, I reflect us, like, I would never have told my parents about my crushes, because of the implicit shame behind it. So and it's beautiful that they can do that. But like, in your man's work, being with men, maybe in your own story, I don't know, like, Where have you seen this repression play out? And how have you been able to step into this? Like, I'm a sexual being man, like, that's what feels right. That's how I get my needs met.

Max Trombly 46:51

Yeah, I mean, my relationship with sexuality goes back to my teen years. And it's, it's quite a story. But I don't without going into the story, what I would say is, I just recognized, you know, in my mid 30s, I recognized how important having an open sexual flow is. And I now see it in a kind of different light. And so I'll just kind of go to that. You know, my teach I have a teacher, John Weinland. He's a he's great. Are you familiar with John Lennon?

Curt Storring 47:17

Man, I was signed up and ready to go to the body men's leadership training this year and would not have liked doing it without the full immersion. And because I'm in Canada, currently travel. I put it off. So yes, intimately familiar. Absolutely. Great. John, and everyone who doesn't know him, please go follow read everything, sign up to his video thing that he's got online man. Yeah, it's

Max Trombly 47:40

virtual workshop. And yeah, he's got a book actually, that he just released on Amazon. It's coming out in June, but super awesome. Yeah. And as an aside, and just sort of a disclosure, I work with him and I work for him. I'm a program assistant dmlt and I'm also a contract employee with him. So I'm just putting that out there. So that that's like, you know, but what I will say is, you know, when I first started working with John, he brought up this point and it's fucking true, which is like how you fuck anything is how you fuck everything. So like, how you fuck your wife is how you fuck the world? How you fuck your partner's how you fuck your business? And when you extrapolate that down, it's sort of like are you fucking from neediness? Are you fucking from like, I have it all. And I'm here, fuck. And it's an interesting concept. You know, it's kind of vulgar, but like, the truth of the matter is, like, Am I leading from a place of I have everything I want? And I'm here to give everything I have? Or are you leading from a place of like, I'm not having my needs met. And I need you know, what I mean, like scarcity, mind or whatever. And I think that that's really important, you know, ultimately, in life, we are sexual beings, period. Every living thing on the planet is a sexual being. And sexuality encompasses a whole lot of our life experience, whether we deny it, or accept it, it's there. And so learning how to be a healthfully expressed sexual being is critical to being able to live presently. You know, as soon as you repress certain things, especially sexuality, shit gets weird. You know, all I would argue that like toxic behavior, and like, you know, things like rape and like abuse, all come from repression, right? Emotional or sexual repression. And, you know, I grew up in a Catholic family. My mom was Catholic, my dad's not, but like, you know, I, I saw, you know, kind of the difficulty of a not sexually expressive relationship. They loved each other for sure, before she passed. But it just wasn't like, it wasn't as like alive and electric. And just as an aside, this is just a hilarious moment. So my dad's 75, right. And he went on a trip. He lives in Berlin, Germany in the summertime. He was born in Germany, and he lives in New Orleans. So we all live in New Orleans that are severe. So he just got back from Berlin recently, and we had a dinner so it's my wife and my kids and my dad's over and my How's your trip? He's like, great. I had the best sex of my life. I'm like, You, my kids are sitting there. I'm like, great. Like what? Tell me about it, Who's the woman like Bo Bonnie's like, I fell in love with this woman this year, like, and I was just like, this is the best moment of my life. Like, my dad's sitting at my dinner table with my kids and my wife, and he's just like, I had the greatest sex of my life. And I'm like, Fuck, yeah, dad. Good for you. And like, it's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing to feel his like, his his like opening as a human at 75. Mind you, but like his opening into this world of like, wow, sex is great. Like, it's amazing. I've never had a relationship like this before. And it's like, man, he looks good. He looks healthy. His color is great. Like, the dude is just on fire in life right now. And that's been missing from his life for a while, like, yeah, you could, you could tell. And now he's just like, he feels great. If he feels like a James Brown song. Like, you know what I mean? My dad's like, doing great. And it's all because he's a he's I get fully expressed sexual human. I don't know, I just think it's really important. I think if you're out of line, if anyone is out of line with their sexuality, and is not in a space of open sexual flow, really explore what that what that looks like, and what that means and what your needs are. And ultimately, you know, how can you open up the part of you that's resisting closing or denying yourself and your needs. And, you know, it might take some maneuvering, like depending on your relationship status, and where you are like, there might be some maneuvering that needs to take place in negotiations from conversation, but it sucks to be repressed, it sucks to live with repressed needs, desires. And we've only got one life, man, you know, this is all we got. And we get to choose how we want to live it. Do we want to have a fucking amazing life? Or do we want to live with like, well, I made these decisions. And here's where I'm at, you know, which is the old way? Yeah. Yeah, we married when we were young, and we don't really get along, but we're gonna stay together as the kids. It's like, well, there's some value in staying together for kids, but also like, Fuck, yeah.

Curt Storring 51:59

Yeah, fuck is right. And yeah. Yeah, there's like a vitality that I'm getting from the story about your dad, too. That's also missing. In a lot of people, a lot of men's lives who aren't 75 who just don't embody their being their sex? Yeah, there's like this. Yeah, I guess how John says it exactly. Right. Now you fuck anything is how you fuck everything. And if you are not doing that, like you said, from a place of attentional power, then it's kind of like not only is it pervy, but like it doesn't, it doesn't Yeah, like, it's not going to get the needs met that you think you're getting from sex in the first place?

Max Trombly 52:36

Yeah, totally. And it comes out sideways. And that's the thing you brought up again, like pervy, right? The whole thing about Corvinus is that you're not having your sexual needs met. So you're trying to meet them in a way that's not really consensual. And that's what happens. Like, that's the, that's the shit people do is like, they're not expressed sexually. So they do all this other shit, or like, toxicity comes out of it. Like, you know, there's a lot of people that are in like, within some men's work circles, there's people that are like, really, they hate women, and they like blame women, and they're like, you know, I'm so fucking nice. I hold doors for women, why don't they like me, and it's just like, Fuck them. And like, man, like, all that energy is just repressed sexual energy, and like, a lack of ability to work with fluency with the feminine. And I feel that, like, I feel that pain, like I get it, I get that it's out there and that it exists. And, you know, all I can say is just I hope that men find their way into a space of helpful relating, and great sex.

Curt Storring 53:32

Yeah. The final point that I want to make on this is, as you were saying, like all of these negative outcomes and going like this is why, for our sons, and our daughters, but specifically for our sons, why this cannot be something we repress. Like it was for many of us in our generation. Like, we have to be open, have you. I can remember you said, your son of seven now, have you had any sort of discussion or thought about how you will do this? Because it ain't enough as I got, which was like one single talk one time out of the blue. Now we're good. I don't have to talk about this again. It was what my dad's energy was talking to me about that. And I'm grateful that he did, because like, some guys didn't get that at all. But for me, I'm going like, how am I going to navigate this on a continuous basis and help them my sons to step into this shame free? Respectfully and like honoring their truth? Yeah, I thought about that.

Max Trombly 54:28

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I have conversations with my wife Kelly about this all the time. And it's just like, when when's the right age to bring up different things. And so, you know, we've had conversations about like, how babies are made and like, what a penis is and what a vagina is, and you know, what men and women have and whatever. And we've had, we've had some conversations around like, gender orientation, and like, you know, LGBTQ stuff, but like, you know, it's all like age appropriate stuff. So like, recently, he was like, you know, Do do do boys ever like boys or like, whatever. And I was like, yeah, totally. Yeah. And like you just make it like it's it's not a thing. It doesn't have to be a thing. I was introduced to the idea of like gay people. When I was in Provincetown, Massachusetts with my dad, we I grew up in Massachusetts, and I saw these two guys holding hands walking down the street. And I was like, why are they holding hands and my dad was just like, they're in love. And I was like, Cool, so easy. And from that place, everything was okay. Right. And so it's like, that's one, like, I didn't get a great sexual education from my parents, but I got a good understanding that like, things are okay. And so that's kind of what I want to bring to my kids, you know, I want them to understand it, like sex is important. It matters. It's fun, it's great. It's pleasurable. Also, you gotta be you gotta be careful, like, you gotta be like, careful with when you're dating, you know, pregnancy, STDs, all that stuff, that's all gonna come, and it's gonna come probably when I think it's more age appropriate. You know, I think about when kids are exposed to things like pornography, and sex, and you know, it's probably like 11, or 12, maybe 10 depends on their friend group. And so I think once my son's more like nine or 10, that's when I'll start bringing these ideas so that when things pop up in his periphery, he has some context to see it through. You know, and there's also just an interesting aside, my, my income for the past two, I'm a photographer, that's what I've been doing for a living for a long time. And part of my work has been an exploration of sensuality, and eroticism, what that looks like, and I've photographed, I've been photographing people for over a decade in that space. And so there is kind of a lot that I can bring to my kids around, just like beauty is beautiful. Sex is wonderful. And it's great. And like, you know, you're gonna, like, as you explore this as a teenager and older, like, you're going to hit some bumps and things are going to be weird. And like, that's okay. And if you ever need support, like, let me know, if you're ever embarrassed, great, let's talk about it. Because it doesn't matter. It's all easy. So that gets, that's how I'm going to lead it. You know, I don't know if he's seven. And so right now, it's just about how babies are made, what love can look like and why love's important. And I have been talking to him about what it means to be an adult and like, you know, showing up as like a, as a father, like, I kind of like a wax, I wax with my son about like what I'm trying to do as a dad, especially when we have moments of challenge and there's like, you know, if there's like reprimands or things like one of the guiding principles for my work with my son, is that when things go south, and we get into any sort of like, whatever difficult moments, repair, right, always come back to repair, come back to love. Apologize if you have to clean it up. That's how you remove shame. And you can move through moments. It's also how you prevent the buildup of stories. I know we're almost at an hour, but this whole other topic around like avoiding, like the like story beliefs, like childhood wounds will impact an entire life. And so how can I make sure that my son doesn't take on these stories, and a lot of it comes down to repair and explanation. I feel

Curt Storring 57:49

the same way with repair. And it has to be something that you as a father and a man can handle saying that you were wrong. I fucking apologize. I know one of the I was talking to a friend once about this topic. And I was just going like, How are you so chill with everything that happens like this when your kids do something and you do the wrong thing? Like how do you repair? He's like, I've never done this before. Why the fuck would I be good at it? You know, like, that kind of energy. It's like, Oh, right. This is hard. You've never done this before. Like, give yourself a chill pill. And then if something comes up that you think is not in alignment, apologize, talk about it, make them feel safe. So that like you said these stories, these wounds, whatever don't get formed. Because in aloneness. Yeah, that's where they're formed without that repair.

Max Trombly 58:45

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, in the void of information, things are created. Yeah, man. It's just like staying present to what my kids needs are and after we have like a tussle, or like a brush up, because, like, one of our behaviors is misaligned. You know, it's just like coming back to and being like, sorry, sorry, we can try to do better. And I love you. And what did you build on Minecraft today?

Curt Storring 59:08

Yeah, man. Okay, let's leave it there. I love that. I love that ending and the just encapsulate everything we've been talking about, where can people find more about you your photography and everything else you're working on?

Max Trombly 59:19

Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. So my men's work offering is growing. I've been running a men's circle locally, wherever I live for six years. And so I wasn't even online with it. I just did it through word of mouth. I do have ashiftinbeing.com for my men's work and coaching. A thedepthofbeing.com is one of my photographic offerings. I have a couple different businesses. I have a family business that's local to New Orleans where I live, the depth of being businesses more suited towards people in the work. So authors, publishers, thought leaders, I photographed portraits of people that are in the work. Yeah, and I mean, lastly on Instagram, my name is Max Trombley to MAX TROMBLEY and I'm pretty easy to find and you know, I don't put a lot to workout through my Instagram, my Instagram is, you know, a bit more reflective and just sort of an artful portrayal of my life. But it is kind of moving toward, you know, a deeper expression. And so I think an Instagram would be, Instagram would be a great place, probably link, link it on whatever page this goes up on.

Curt Storring 1:00:17

Yep, we'll put all those links in the show notes, and there'll be on dad.org/podcast. And, man, I am super grateful for this. And I love the flow that was created because I didn't have a lot of like actual questions. It's like, let's go there. And I feel extremely grateful for you and the energy that you bring and the wisdom from your own experiences. So thank you, Max for showing up.

Max Trombly 1:00:39

Yeah, Curt. My pleasure. It's been great. I enjoyed it immensely. I hope you have the best day

Curt Storring 1:00:50

that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. It means the world to find out more about everything that we talked about in the episode today, including Show Notes resources and links to subscribe leave a review work with us go to dad.work/pod That's DAD.WORK/POD type that into your browser just like a normal URL, dad.work/pod To find everything there you need to become a better man, a better partner and a better father. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai