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Today’s guest is MY WIFE!

We go deep today talking about:

  • What’s different in our relationship now after 10+ years, compared to where we started
  • How not being an asshole improves your marriage
  • What my wife wants from me in our relationship
  • The massive impact being a man of integrity has on your wife’s ability to trust you and do hard things
  • How we’ve built mutual respect in communication
  • Leadership dynamics and roles within our family
  • Why we think men should lead their families and women should stay home and raise kids in most situations
  • How to take a serious look at your life to make sure you’re optimizing for the right thing (your family)
  • Why it’s all about the kids

Natalie and I have been married for 10+ years, we have 3 sons, another baby on the way, and we’ve spent what seems like a lifetime building a relationship that truly gives both of us what we need, and keeps both of us building toward a legacy that truly matters.

Find me online at:

Unknown Speaker 0:00

If you are the foundation of your family, you are the firm footing. They build their lives on. You carry a glorious burden and you never dream of laying it down. You carry it with joy and gratitude. You show up, even when you don't feel like it. You lead, serve, love and protect. You are a father. This is the dead word podcast where men are forged into elite husbands and fathers by learning what it takes to become harder to kill, easier to love, and equipped to lead. Get ready to start building the only legacy that truly matters, your family

Curt Storring 0:59

welcome back to another episode of the downward podcast. This is your host, Curt Storring. And guys, today I am joined by my wife, I am super excited for this episode, it was so hard to tell when we were doing and it was gonna be good. I just went through and edited it again. And I think it's useful. I think it's going to be useful for you guys, especially if you're able to listen to it with your wife. So if you want to listen to it wherever you're at right now definitely go for it. But why don't you download it and or send a link to your wife as well. This is going to be basically we start out going like what's different now 10 plus years in versus where we started. You get to understand how not being an asshole improves your marriage. And we go through basically everything that is working for us the difficult parts that we had to get through how we ended up staying together through the thick and thin. And basically our view on why this works and how you can sort of replicate our success in your own marriage and family. So there's a lot of stuff in here guys, this is one of the most favorite episode. Well, it's it's my most favorite episode because I get to sit down uninterrupted with my wife for like two hours and do this. So thank you to my mom, for taking the kids. We could do this on the weekend. Anyway, guys, let me know we think super interested to hear if this lands, no idea if it will To be quite honest with you because it's different than what we normally do. And I'm excited to share with you guys anyway. So if you liked this, awesome, leave a review on Apple or tell me Instagram, send me a DM dad worked on Curt. Otherwise, skip to the next one, because there's gonna be more episodes coming up. But I think you'll like it. So all that being said, we'll jump into this episode with my wife, Natalie Storring. Here we go. Hey, guys, we're here for another episode. And this one is a special one, because I've got my favorite guest yet, who is in fact, my wife. And I get to look at her in real life on record, which is weird, because I've never done this type of interview before. And I don't think I've ever interviewed my wife. So this is going to be interesting, we'll see how this goes. But I thought this would be a cool thing to do. Because things are working for us now after 10 plus years of marriage, and three and a bit children. There's another one cooking right now. But it wasn't always like this. And I figured it'd be useful to go through and just talk about, like, what works, what didn't work? Why is it work now and it didn't work before and just what we have done to make this a good system of family. So welcome, my darling wife, for showing these men, there are literally 1000s of people listening as I feel. Yeah, it's really weird. So I think that will start and we're gonna have to just ease into this because mostly, Natalie just supports me behind the scenes. And so this is like, massively uncomfortable, I'm sure. And I appreciate that you're doing this. But things started off when we first met like 12 years ago, very fiery, are sort of traumas bonded with one another. And we were still quite childish. And that was great, because it was exciting. But as we got married and started having children, things weren't all that good. And I'm curious what your idea is, in terms of your your thought would be in terms of what's different now. Versus then because I think we figured at least the tenure point out. I don't know what's gonna look like in 20 or 30 years, but I think this is working. So is there like, is there something that is different now? Can you break it down that way?

Natalie 4:24

Well, the biggest thing, I think, is that we both had a lot of growing up to do but we would have never ever known that unless we had like, not jumped headfirst into the deep end. Because that's like one of the big function of both of our personalities is this like acceptance of chaos and the ability to dive headfirst into things. So even though we were young and had a lot to work on, didn't know it. We still decided to take on marriage and family life immediately, and we would have never known about all these things that we needed to work on, if we hadn't done that, especially not if we hadn't had chosen to have children right away, because that was like, broke open, like a huge amount of stuff that we would have never known was there and confronted us with a load of our own crap that we, that could have been ignored, were shoved aside for years. But, um, when we're dealing with it every day, and there's tools in there that are involved in dealing with it, and things are miserable, was like really great incentive to try to figure out what the hell was going on and fix it. That's kind of like, where we started. And then, right, so there's being confronted with all of this stuff that's there, that won't go away, unless we fix it. But that took was like Omni shambles of fixing because you had to fix your shits, I had to fix mine. Then we had to fix the relationship, or build the relationship based on the stuff that we were improving in our solves working on separately and then working on stuff together, and then try to look at it in terms of like, what has our previous parenting done? And what will our future parenting do to to not only like, repairs of the previous damage, but also be like a positive going forward? Because I feel like now, not as much anymore, because honestly, things are like so much better now. But for quite a while we were like, I don't know fighting like two sides at once. Because the parenting had to be both. How do we like correct this these like, like, for me, like how do I how do I repair being like a mum who struggle with setting boundaries with kids, with my kids, and then how to set up boundaries with them. So repairing like, past problems there, and then also showing up as like a newer, better version of myself at the same time.

Curt Storring 7:39

Yeah, we had to, well, when you parent poorly, and your children react to you poorly, then it makes it all worse, because it's like a flywheel. But then you stop the flywheel and you start to become better. And yet your kids are still acting in the way that they did, because of how you started parenting. There's this hangover effect, where they'll keep doing the things because of how you used to be. And now you're different. And you're like, Oh, come on. And so you're managing now like, Oh, look how much better I am. And I'm continually reminded that I used to be crap, because my kids keep acting this way. So yeah, like we did a lot of growing up. We did a lot of, I don't know, getting better and figuring out why we suck so bad. And so I guess Yeah, the question in terms of like, what's different is literally everything. But you also had a good one before we started recording what's different now between now and then very simply, what was answered? Indeed that's probably well that's one of the biggest things and that's why this is a thing that I'm doing now is because this work works. And you've heard it from the horse's mouth now I'm no longer an asshole which means this work so let's go guys get into data work. You need to be doing the work let's go

Natalie 8:59

into specifically when I say you're not an asshole anymore, what I mean by that is, you're not like obsessed with needing to control everything that goes on in the house, you're not frustrated with my emotions, any any of them. You're not one though you are, like emotionally available now. Like basic things like that. There's probably like a lot more but like the control and the emotional availability are like the huge, huge ones. Like even a couple days ago, I was going like, I don't remember what it was. It was I don't think it was no, it was just something that you were like casually supporting me. I was having one of my one of my hormonal sort of little upsets. And you're just being nice to me. And like I had this clear thought of like how many years ago this this would have been happened. But it was so casual and easy for you now to just like, be nice to me for a few minutes. And it was like all I needed and then it was okay. I mean, like right now I am hormonal and a little bit extra in the emotional department.

Curt Storring 10:18

Growing a literal human being, that's actually that brings me brings to mind the next question that I have here, which is like, what did you want from you? What? Maybe what did you want from me? But also, what do you now want from me? And I think this will give guys some idea of, like, first of all guys be communicating with your wife ask her. But from a feminine perspective, there are probably some things that I think I can identify. But I would love to hear what you say those things are like, what are you? What were your needs? And what are they now for me?

Natalie 10:47

So I can't answer that question. Simply, unfortunately, because I know like, your listeners are going to be dads and stuff. But the thing is, is these are marriages, and there's two people and the the wife has to know, has to know what she wants in the first place. And you think that that is a simple question, but it's not. Quite often, if you, if you if you were to just ask like, not necessarily everybody's going to be able to articulate that in a simple way. Like, if you had asked me a couple years ago, like what do I want? I mean, I would have said, like, I just want you to be nice to me. But like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, what does that mean? Like, that's what I was feeling. And that's what I wanted. But I didn't know what that actually was. Because I didn't know what my own needs were. And I didn't know how those specific needs needed to be fulfilled in relationship. So it took a lot of my own work on myself to be able to show up better for you in terms of like, knowing what I needed from you, and how I needed you to show up for me. And I think like you've experienced probably a lot of that as well, just like, well, we like each other and we want to be together, but like what do we actually need to do with and for each other in relationship? What does that actually look like? So I would love to be able to answer this question like simply, I can give you now that I know, I can give you an answer to that. But I feel like it's important to say that, if you are like a wife who's detached from her own needs, which a lot of women are, it's going to be harder to actually come to your husband and say, This is what I need. And it's going to be hard for the husbands to go, Hey, babe, like, what do you need from me? Because she might turn around and say, I need you to stop being an asshole. Well, like, what does that mean? And it could mean that she wants you to stop being a control freak and wants you to be more emotionally available. But like, can she actually articulate that? And can you actually say that? That's what stopping an asshole means? Sometimes, maybe? Yes, but a lot of time, maybe? No?

Curt Storring 13:09

Yeah, well, I think I think that's good. First of all, if you guys are listening to this, like in the car or something, why don't you download this episode, listen to it with your wife, because I think that is where this gets more impactful. But I mean, what you just said, is basically that the wife does have some responsibility in this. And often as men, we are blamed for everything. And my take is we are responsible for everything. Therefore you sort out your business first. Now, if you're trying to sort your business out, and your wife is not sorting hers out, there's a conversation we had there, but you're still leading through that. But if you just don't even know where you're going, you don't communicate with your wife, it's useful to get at least some perspective on what I would say most women want in terms of the feminine in the relationship. So like, are there some principles or anything like that, what you're looking for now that you sort of know, because there was all that unpacking of the burden of, you know, growing up with whatever family we all have, and all that kind of like the ideas that we bring into these things when we were young adults. Now that you've unpacked them, what do you want from me?

Natalie 14:16

Um, I think going back to just like the control thing, which used to be an issue for you, I think what is big for me is I want leadership from you with out like control or micromanaging to be like, leader of like home and family, but with like, trust and without like, needing to be like picky or upset about any of like the little things that don't actually matter, like the day to day things that you know, my like running of the household and being primary caregiver for the children doesn't actually matter for you which I think that those are the kind of like control things that used to get run Only upsetting in the past. So I want you to lead in relationship I want you to lead in family. But without, like an iron grip or without being a tyrant without being a tyrant. Yeah.

Curt Storring 15:16

Which lead by example, as well.

Natalie 15:19

Yeah. And when I say like I want you to, I mean, I clearly see that you do this now, it's not something that I have to be, it's not something that I'm like dreaming about anymore. It's something that is happening, like every day. And I know like, if you're having like a stressful time, or you're super preoccupied with something like, a little bit of like, the, the need for control will come back. There's just like a, like a safety and I can see that. But it doesn't, like upset me or, like worry me in the way that it used to. Because, like you're aware of it, I'm aware of a we're in a, like solid and respectful place in our relationship where I can tell you that, hey, I think like, maybe this might be getting to you a little bit. And this is part of your personality is coming out right now. Chill back off of it. And like, that's something that I feel comfortable with being able to tell you now. Which is like part of the the other question, being able to, like, openly communicate with you on these things, and not feel like I either wasn't heard or are was emotional and therefore needed to be dismissed. Or I'll just

Curt Storring 16:34

get too big and angry. And it's not like yeah, or just

Natalie 16:37

like, use anger as defense. And then I'm

Curt Storring 16:40

very good, though, I was very good. That reflected with blame. You never have to do anything wrong. It's awesome. The, there's a couple of things in there that I want to talk about. One of them was this is like totally tangent. So we'll come back to this in a sec. But there was a time when I was just like, in the shit, so to speak. And I was thinking specifically in Thailand and Bulgaria. And like, things were just so awful. For me this is when I was feeling like, you guys would be better off if I was just gone. And I mean, like, like, totally gone, because I wasn't gonna run away. I know, there are people in a variety of families who just sort of left and never came back. And that was acceptable. I was like, No, I just, I need to be gone for good. And even though I was a massive asshole, many many times like, to my credit, I always came back into my credit, I always like was hopeful and optimistic that I figure it out. And I usually are a you are used that as an opportunity to almost treat it like my full time job to get better. And when I look back at that, I see so much patience and grace. And that could have been like a survival mechanism for you. Like, let's not poke him too much. But there were times when I was probably terrifying. And you would come find me and just being nice to me. And that was like, hard to accept in a self pity party. But what was that about? And how did you get to that kind of support, because I think like, in hindsight, that was way more important than I thought it was. And I wonder if there's any like, I don't know, principles or tips or anything like that for any of the wives if their husbands are struggling with anger. So I'd

Natalie 18:17

say there's probably some really, really big points there, which may or may or may not be present in other relationships. But for me in regards to you, I trust you, I trust your word. And I trust that you are going to do what you say you're going to do because you have never not. So in any of these situations where you were like horrible and scary. And you decide like, I hate what I'm doing. I hate myself, I don't want to be like this, I'm going to fix it. I trusted you and believed you. And you did. So there was that? You have we have always had like a huge amount of trust there, which I don't think has ever been unfounded. It has come from different places, seeing like, way back, seeing like your work ethic and like us working together, knowing that like you could go through a world or shit, say you're gonna do something and then come through on it. Like I knew that I could trust you. So even though like at your worst, you would be horrible. If you said they were going to change and you were going to figure it out. I knew that you were and there was never any doubt. And then on the other side, where you mentioned, like the survival mechanism. I know I've said this before and other common conversations, our sort of like biggest dysfunctions in personality have turned out to be so helpful in our marriage, because one we've been aware of them so we're not just like letting

Curt Storring 19:55

out work. You got to do the work to know what's going on in your life,

Natalie 19:58

but I know that I have a massive capacity to put up with people shit. That's like a family systems thing that's like a way back thing. And to my own detriment to my own pain, I can endure anything. And I recognize that as being something that can be used for both good and to hurt me. And so when it came down to like us, sometimes my ability to endure, you're being a jerk and obstacle was not good for me. But then if I also knew I could see you, I could see you figuring out what you needed to do, in order to heal yourself and get better, I could see you actually doing something, I could hear you seeing how it was affecting you and what you wanted to change. And contrast that, then like my ability to endure shit was perfect, because it gave you the space that you needed in order to be able to fix it, because it's not like you could wake up and fix it overnight. But you needed the time to be able to actually, like tear the house down and rebuild it. And we still need to live a mouse. You know, if I had been like, Okay, that's great. I'm just going to take off and come back when you're better. Like, that's not a marriage. Or I just, I can't do this, because this isn't going the way that I want it to. That's not a marriage either. So

Curt Storring 21:42

yeah, that's a convenient relationship that has outs. And that's obviously you gotta be Yeah, I think that's important to talk about too, is that we went into this with like divorce, never on the table. Because in our families, we have experienced things like that. And we just knew from the start, even though we didn't know anything else, even though we were like, 22, I think we got engaged. We were 21. That's so long ago. Like, we just took divorce off the table, at least like I was not going to be my dad like that. There's no way because I knew at some like it took me a long time to actually think about this. But I knew in my heart that I did not want to start this and be a family with the kind of man that would just leave. And so that was very important. I think it's so interesting. All these things worked out, especially now on this like, faith journey, but like things just worked out that we were never going to call it quits. And so I don't know, is that sort of what you're going with as well. Like, that's it's not a marriage if you're just like, oh, it's not convenient. Feels bad right now, is that we mean?

Natalie 22:45

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Um, just that I was never, I was never interested in looking for like, a convenient, out or like an internet and convenient out, I guess I don't think it'd be convenient. I was never looking for an out in any way. No, it was never an option. And what I mean by that is that I had every intent of making sure that we both figured shit out and got to the other side. And that I knew that there was going to be a lot of hard work to get there. And I was not going to like come up against the hard work that needed to be done and decide that it would actually just be easier if I wasn't there with you. Or if we like dissolve the marriage and went our separate ways so that you could do your healing without us or like that was never was never an option. I feel like I should say, you have to be like aware of these things in yourself. Because I would never want to like advise anyone who is good at injuring crap to do so with someone who wasn't going who didn't intend on fixing their own problems. There are some times where I have had to be very, very clear about my boundaries with you sometimes, where things were particularly bad on my head to come to you. And I'm like, do you want to go away for a few days? Do you want to like do you need some more time? Do you need to not be here for a little bit? Not like kicking you out? I just mean like couple days like Do you need some extra space to figure out whatever demons you've gotten inside you right now and get them out of my house? And that's like a like a big example of that. But just to have very, very clear boundaries about yes, you're here and I trust you and you are doing what you say that you're doing and I believe that you are and I can see slowly the results of it. But also, even though I am able to put up with it, as it changes, to have clear boundaries for myself, so that there was never like, taking advantage of that trust.

Curt Storring 25:15

Yeah, the the thing here guys is, and this is not to toot my own horn because this is something that I hadn't even thought about it just sort of taken for granted. But if you are not a man of integrity, good luck finding trust, like that's just the reason that in this program, and this program in this project of dad work that we talked about being a good being an elite man, then husband and father, is because if you're not showing up in integrity, and confidence and masculinity and doing all the right things, as a man yourself, if you're not fixing yourself as the number one bedrock of your relationships, marriage and children or parenting, then you're going to be trustworthy. You don't get that extra time, you don't get that extra trust, if you are not seen to be trustworthy and integrity. And again, I this is not something we've ever talked about before. I didn't know that was why you're able to endure I mean, obviously other than like, you're just getting in during that. But that's so important. I think it's useful to check yourself, do an audit, like where am I out of alignment? What am I what am I doing that I say I'm not and what am I not doing that I am, and sorting that out first, if you want to rebuild trust, and I want to get back to family roles in a second, just in terms of like what we do right now. But I also want to talk about trust in terms of testing. When I actually did like, get better, because there was a moment where like this, the switch was flipped from, you know, let's say it was going from zero or like minus 1000. And I was slowly getting up, you know, a couple percent at a time, and I kind of went from like 40%, to probably 70% over the course of like a short amount of time, it just because everything worked all at once. And it just like, it just felt better. And I was able to show up, I was able to hold space, and I was able to be there more emotionally. And I noticed and I've noticed this in a lot of my clients is when they start making the changes, their wives will often test them, like Yeah, right, buddy, you know, you just come back and all of a sudden, you're good. And so I think for a lot of guys on this journey, listening to this podcast and doing the dad work, they have to expect that their wives might want to test them and might need to test them for their own safety. So do you want to talk about that at all? Like, did you was it a conscious thing? Or was it like subconscious?

Natalie 27:29

I think it was probably subconscious. But I will say something else about the trust thing is that if you are doing this kind of work, and you are deciding that you are going to show up as a new person, basically, but you haven't got the other areas of your life sorted out. And you are untrustworthy, and your others other areas of your life, it is going to be harder to trust, that you're actually doing the work and you're actually going to be showing up better. Like if if you know, you can't be relied upon for other things in your marriage or your as like as a dad or in your in your home life, then it's going to be even harder for your wife to trust your like self improvement.

Curt Storring 28:21

What were some of those things then? What What made you trust me, then what was I doing?

Natalie 28:26

Was it like, No, I don't think no, this is not about you at all. This is this is this has never been an issue for you.

Curt Storring 28:32

Why No, that's what I'm saying. Like where trust are from though isn't like you had seen me work hard. You said what else is like an an explicit trust signal for you?

Natalie 28:44

I think you okay, like for example, it would, for example, you would say like, I want to start going to the gym and you know, going to gain a bunch of muscle. So is my expert. Okay, okay, okay, I want to go to the gym when I want to get to x, right? And a lot of people might say that, but then you just like started getting up at five and going to the gym. And then like, over a certain amount of time it happened. You know, so there are things like that where like you in your in your everyday life, like in your work, like we we quit our jobs and moved provinces and you said, I want to start my own business. And then you did you You figured it out.

Curt Storring 29:35

So okay, so like it's the it's a little it's a things outside of the personal development work that make you a man of your word, I guess then. So anyway, sorry. I think it took you off track over there.

Natalie 29:47

Yeah. So it's just just like examples of things where you said like, I want this or I want to do this. And nothing happened overnight. Nothing was like immediate, but it always There was always evidence of you, moving towards whatever goal you had, there was always evidence of you like working on it. So I never ever, I've never doubted any of that, like, we talked about this before. But you would think it would be kind of insane to just like, quit our jobs and move provinces with like, not that much money in the bank, but you know, the baby on the way and the baby on the way and to trust that you were going to just start a business online from scratch when we got there, which it seems insane, but I knew you were going to do it. And if you know, down the road, it wasn't working or whatever, we would have had to confront that. But we didn't because you were you were in the office every day, figuring it out.

Curt Storring 30:52

And screaming at my baby. Don't forget that part. Because this is this has been

Natalie 30:58

getting that was so that was so stressful. Okay, I don't even want to

Curt Storring 31:01

this is getting a little bit too pumped. So let me just cut myself down there. That is true. Because like I said, I was going to do it. And I was like, oh, no, I don't know what I'm doing. So it'd be like 1416 hour days in that office. And then yeah, you know, we had to figure that all out from scratch.

Natalie 31:18

The point of this was, was that I saw you in so many other areas where there are personal things, like your own fitness or your like what you've wanted to do with your business, like every every area of your life where you have wanted something or wanting to change something, or wanted to, like build something you have made it happen. And I'm not saying that, like the success part is the key there because it's not the part is the working part, like seeing you work on it, and seeing you because not everything that you've done has been like gloriously successful. But you have always, you have always been focused and determined, and trustworthy in the sense that you've always been moving towards the goal that you have said that you were going to go towards. So if we're talking about Mustad work here, and whether or not you can request trustworthy in, you know, changing yourself. Like, are you somebody who in other areas of your life? Or do you do what you say you're gonna do? Like, are you the guy who says, like, I gotta, I gotta shake this gut, I gotta start going to the gym, and then you go, like, a few times, and then you quit. Like, that's, that's just there are simple ways to build trust and be the man that you say that you are. And it carries over in all areas of your life. Because just like, you know, our kids see everything that we do and copy everything we do. Like your wife's right there she sees so she sees you not get up and brother down when you said you were going to so like if you're not even gonna do that for yourself and like, Why should she believe that you're gonna do you're gonna work on your your other issues to improve your marriage. So there's so many ways in your life that you can be, you can show up as somebody who is trustworthy Inshallah, or somebody with integrity, finally made my point.

Curt Storring 33:36

Yeah, and that's why we start in our programs with like, so much focus on accountability and discipline with the basic things. Like, okay, I want to be better dad, and husband and father. Those are all you know, I think it's a dead father. But I want to be a better man, husband, father. And okay, I guess we're starting out, like with workout plan. And with waking up early. And with journaling, like, how does this have anything to do with being a dad, it's because of this, you're building up your own trustworthiness. And you're building your discipline so that when things get hard at home, you have flex that discipline muscle enough to be able to stay calm and do the hard thing. So anyway, yeah, that's a really good point on like, getting the basics, right, so that you can do all the rest of it. Because if you're not building on a solid foundation, it's just gonna be a shaky structure anyway, it's gonna fall down. Alright, so circling back to the the testing thing, right? You want to go into that, because that was one of those things was like, Oh, look, I'm so good. Like, just take me out. I'm so much more loving. Let's just get everything's gonna be fine now. And you're like, sucker punches left and right. I'm going like what? But it also made me like, test out my own words. So what was that all about?

Natalie 34:44

Um, so one thing there that I discovered from my own sort of like, change in parenting, is that whether or not so you go through all this stuff, you do this work for yourself, you're suddenly able to show up with these new words and this new temperament And the thing is, though, at the beginning, it sounds, it sounds weird, and it sounds there's like words in our in your mouth that may not necessarily be like yours yet. There is a like a sense of like, fake it till you make it because I know for me like with the parenting thing, it's like I'm gonna show up better in these particular ways. And I'm gonna have to start using this type of language. And I sound I don't I sound like I'm reading off a script, I sound, I sound weird, I sound whatever. And they can tell, except that I did it enough times to the point where I started feeling it. And I started really like embodying it. So that it wasn't them hearing this, like, who are you? And why are you saying these things? To me? It was like, there was actual, like, there was a person behind it, who believed it. So what I'm wondering, though, is the beginning for you? Is there is there an element of that where like, you're gonna have to start using this new language and these things, and it feels weird on your mouth. And you're like being someone else for a little while before you can actually be yourself as this new person. And so I think like the testing thing, kind of like works in hand with that, because not only are you showing up in a new way that even though it's positive, it's so different. Also, at the very beginning for you guys, just like a weird because you're doing like this new thing. Like it's a little bit clunky, it's a little bit scripty, you know, so there's like that. Like, there's a natural reaction to it on top of this thing. And even though

Curt Storring 36:42

I think what you're saying is that for you listening to me and hearing Yeah,

Natalie 36:47

so just don't give up like like, even though it sounds really flippin weird. And you hear yourself saying these new things that might be like soft or like strange, or they don't sound like they're really you or whatever. And your wife's reacting to them, like, Who the hell are you? And then she goes and test you after, like, cool, keep going. The keep faking it until you actually like embody it till you actually feel it. Because sometimes it's gonna take you a few times, to use this new language and to relate to your wife in this new way before it actually settles into you as you. Yeah.

Curt Storring 37:21

That's one of the things I had Ryan Carnahan, on the other day from superhuman fathers, and he was saying, basically what I have experienced, which is like you, when you do the thing, you actually are the thing. So if you do the showing up as a compassionate, loving husband, you actually are that guy. And yes, it takes a while to like clicking be thinking about it and feeling about it. But I thought that two were like I was, I don't know, I wanted to be this nice guy. I wanted to be this guy who was a good man who was loving. And I was like, wait a sec, if I want that, like, how does that mean that I'm not that. So this is what I want, if I just like acted a different way. And that's what the thing was, it was action. So I wanted this thing, which meant, oh, at least in my heart, I knew I wasn't a bad guy, because I thought I was for a long time. But then it was like, Okay, I've got to act this way. And so yeah, you just have to do some things that feel weird, which is like, instead of, instead of saying your wife, like, Okay, what, like, why are you telling me this? You just go Oh, Hey, babe. Yeah, that sounds like it was tough. Do you need anything from me right now? Like, what else happened? And it's just like, I don't I don't care. I don't want to know like, as personally, I don't necessarily care that, you know, something happened with? I don't know, this paper mess on the table, like do I? Do I need to know why that's there? Not really. But sometimes you want to tell me because you need to be heard. Right?

Natalie 38:42

Did you know what the amazing thing about that is now? Is it because you have been able to do that one of the things that I do instead of running my emotion, my mouth is like when I say do you have space for me to run my mouth? That's you right now. Because now there's like, I don't know, there's like this opening. These like, boundaries are clear. Or like, I know that you sometimes can get overwhelmed if I just like comment, I talk at you. But sometimes I do need that I need to be able to come and talk at you. But now I know that I can check with you first. And you can give me yes or no to go ahead. And then also if you're feeling like open like you're saying you can invite me to take up a little bit more space.

Curt Storring 39:30

Yeah. And that's part of like learning what each other needs. And just communicating because the one thing so I've always thought and I said this on multiple podcasts at this point, we should do this visually. But I feel like we have been so close for the last like, I don't know, two to four years probably like maybe three to three to four years. We've been so close that when any and we've got the tools now that when we start to drift apart so imagine like my hands are touching right now kind of like a prayer thing. When we started rift in our hands come apart, there's like a little bit of space. And either you go parallel, and you just never come back together or it widens and widens before you guys just like the relationship falls apart. So my like one of my top goals right now is always as soon as it feels like that's happening, we just like dive right into the deep, and we have a hard conversation. And I feel like we've somehow got, we've somehow always been amazing, and having massively deep, annoying, frustrating, emotional conversations when they need to happen. And that's probably why we now know what each other needs so well. So I don't know. Is there anything on that? Because I don't know. It just sort of ended up being natural. We're both quite introspective. But

Natalie 40:38

yeah, so one thing, you make her sound really good when you say that, but like, even though they are like hard, emotional, deep conversations while we're doing this, it is not like, necessarily going to be not, it's not necessarily going to be like clean or respectful. Sometimes there's, like, messy, it's really, really messy. But we always like

Curt Storring 41:02

mostly that was I would say, I don't know if that's happened recently, but am I missing something there?

Natalie 41:09

I'm just worried. I feel like we're emotional or hormonal? Um, no, no, I just, I just wanted to just point that out in that, like, you make it sound very much like, we can always, you know, do the right thing the right way. But no, like, it's totally not like that. Sometimes it's it's sometimes it's super messy. But we always managed to get to the, like, the root of things when they need to be got to Yeah,

Curt Storring 41:35

it's I mean, it's perhaps that's what it is, it is the willingness to be messy. And I'm not I haven't always been good at that. Because like you said, I wanted to be in control of everything. And if it was messy, then like, Oh, gross, I have to deal with this and to fix it. And that's the only way to grow is I've talked to a lot of guys about this, like you guys gotta get in the arena, you got to do the thing that's going to be hard. You can think about it, you can go oh, well, don't really want to rock the boat. Things are good. Now. It's like no man, rock the boat when things are good, because the waters are more still on, you're going to be able to swim longer. So yeah, even if it's messy, even if you don't have the tools yet, you'll only ever get those tools by practicing. And so as we were going into hard communication, when I was learning all this kind of stuff. It was like, Well, I better over communicate now. So I'm going to tell you a feeling that I have, and then we're gonna like get into it, and we're gonna have a fight. But I get to test Can I hold space for you? Can I like communicate in this way that seems more respectful. So I think that's also part of it is just that willingness to get messy.

Natalie 42:35

Yeah. And even just like going back to the like the testing part is like, once both of us figured out, like where our knees and where our boundaries were, we had to practically test those. And sometimes it's in like a nice sort of day to day way. And sometimes it's in like the messy, not nice arguing kind of way. But all of it ends up being valuable because it ends up solidifying the needs and strengthening the boundaries.

Curt Storring 43:12

Yeah, if you're, if you're in integrity, and you're absolutely committed to making it work, then you know that the speed bumps and conflicts are actually a path to success. And I think conflict is a big thing on here too. So like, externalize your conflict rather than internalize it has been really good. And I got that from getting to zero by Jason Gattis, which is a good book, you guys should pick up. Where to next want to talk about family roles you want to talk about like communication, because I think we actually why don't we do that? You want to talk about that? Okay, because maybe I don't know, is that going to be useful? Because I basically patch together like a bunch of communication stuff to come up with a bit of a formula that's like, I don't know what the first one is. Understanding that you, as wife, feminine partner, whatever woman are going to have more needs to communicate emotionally. And that doesn't mean anything about me. Often. It's usually that you have to just be heard. Is that true?

Natalie 44:10

Yeah, I think it is really, it was really valuable when I figured that out. But myself too, was it didn't mean anything about me like the fact that I needed the fact that I need to emote sometimes, and I need someone to emote to sometimes doesn't make it. There's no like negative attachment to that. So long as I am not like dumping on you, and so long as you're willing to hold that space. I mean, it would be negative if I was like if it was dumping when you when you were ready to receive that.

Curt Storring 44:42

Well, I should also be ready to receive it anytime. And that's the thing. No, no,

Natalie 44:45

I don't think so.

Curt Storring 44:48

I mean, that's what I'm going for, though, right? It's like I want to be in that space to be able to do that all the time. I'm not, but I'm almost there. And I feel like that's part of it too. So the thing that I would say, but this is like this comes into the respect. And so when you have both been doing the work, like you saying that's feels respectful to me, because you don't want to just be like, Oh, he can take it, I'm just gonna, like do this, whatever, because you're also trying to think about my needs. And that's why this works. Because when you think about each other's needs, suddenly you're building each other up higher than you could do this yourself, does that land with you?

Natalie 45:22

Um, yeah, I think it's like, partly respect and partly, like, for my own ability to have like, clear boundaries between myself and others, and make sure that I am being respectful in that way. Because like, just for myself, like boundaries is something that I've had to work on a lot. And so these instances in which I can, you know, check in with you see, if you do have space for that, I never want to be in the position where I just assume that you do, even if you want to be someone who can always, like support me in that way. That's really nice. But I never ever want to take it for granted. I always want to leave it where we are openly respectful of each other and can check in in that way, rather than just assuming that it's there.

Curt Storring 46:14

Well, that's one of the questions we had to from Instagram is how do you show respect to me? I'm not sure whether that's coming from? I can't remember if that is from the man or woman. But how do you show respect for me? Well, I think this is useful to go into briefly, just because, you know, women need love. And men need respect, mostly more so than the other way around. And so I feel respected in things like that, where you are able to show some self control and awareness and think about my needs. And I am respected when you take my direction and Leadership Without snipping, or nagging or anything like that. And it's not like, it's the time Well, yeah, I'm not saying once again, we're, surprisingly not perfect at this. But when you follow my lead, when you support me in that when I do crazy things like move across the country, and you know, start a business, and I just I do that kind of stuff all the time. And yet, you're always very supportive of that and asking what you can do to help. Basically, you are, yeah, you're very much holding up my vision and making my vision and quest and battle and the thing that I'm building in life easier, and more holistic, because I get to enjoy a wife and a family and a clean house and meals and all this kind of stuff. While I build what is most important in my masculine journey, which is like something bigger than myself, it's pursuing that greatness that you support me and and that feels extremely respectful. And yeah, just being listened to. And just being, you know, pushed back on when necessary. And also not when unnecessary, does that make sense?

Natalie 48:05

And like, sometimes, I genuinely like, really appreciate your clear leadership, because it makes my role in the family what I have to do so much easier. And sometimes, there will be like decisions that need to come up that I will snap at you, and I will, you know, whatever. But like, I know that like in the moment. I know, I'm being petulant, I know it, but I have to do it anyway. And I know what you're saying is the right thing by God to do it, you know, working on, you know, like self control, or whatever it is to not do that, okay, whatever, but I'm not gonna be perfect. So sometimes I'm gonna do that. But generally speaking, I appreciate the leadership so much. I appreciate the ability to clearly communicate, where we want to go as a family. But ultimately, the decision is up to you, even though you have full respect for my opinions, and like thoughts on things and my input. I really appreciate that. It's ultimately your decision.

Curt Storring 49:21

I was talking about this with Jonathan west the other day, and he said something really good, which is, you know, I didn't ask my wife for permission. But I asked for what she thought because I value her. And that's, I think the core of this. And I think the leadership and the roles is a really important conversation as well. Because a lot of guys, especially in the culture these days when a lot of wives work, and there's like this middle road, lack of polarity, there's nobody having actual rolls anymore. As if that's progressive and cool and better. And it's just wrong. Like it doesn't work. And we've seen that so clearly. I have always held the masculine leadership direction, you know, vision, hard work, all of that kind of stuff that has driven us forward. And you have always done the softer things to lead and build the household. It's almost like, I'm the CEO, and you're the CEO, you're the chief operating officer in this thing, right? But there has to be someone at the top. It's not back and forth. And for God's sake, guys, it's not I don't know, honey, what do you want to do? Where do you want to go for dinner? That is the worst, do not put your wife into a leadership position. So you want to talk a little bit about, like, what that leadership looks like other than what you just said, and then maybe sort of our roles and just how we structured things?

Natalie 50:43

Okay, I feel like just one of the things for leadership roles, it's like important is that, what were you saying that the guy said, right, he values his wife. So he asks her what she thinks

Curt Storring 50:52

Yes, from her perspective and perspective, but he's not going to.

Natalie 50:56

So when I say that, it's like, ultimately, it's your decision, you take into account what I think about these things, ultimately, is your decision. But sometimes it doesn't necessarily mean that you're first of all, always right. Or Second of all, always going to stick with your original decision. Because I feel like when I hear a lot of the stuff about the polarity and the, like, relationship roles, it, it ends up sounding like wall, I'm the man so I get to make all the decisions and whatever. Except that one, there are consequences to decisions, too. If you value your wife and your relationship, you will take her her ideas into your decision making process. So it's really important to remember that like, yes, women want men to lead, but nobody wants a my way or the highway kind of set up. And I mean, that's, it's not gonna work like that.

Curt Storring 52:00

So there's a couple of things here. One of them is sometimes I don't have a very, like not a lot of conviction for an issue. I'm just like, Yeah, I think we should do it this way. But then you'll be like, no, no, this is actually like a tenant attend importance for me where it's like afforded in importance for you. So we need to do it this way. And I'm fine being like, oh, okay, because I don't actually care here. But if you really do, then I'm like, I'm happy to do the thing that you want to do. And so it's about communicating. It's about asking, like, what are your expectations here? What would you like out of this? What what do you want moving forward and having this communication, which I think is important to build into your weekly life together? So it's not just, you have no idea what you guys want. But when you're making a decision, or when you're talking about what you're going to do with your tire lives? Because you shouldn't be doing that regularly. It's like, okay, what do you think? And that's it, tell each other what you think. And then you make a decision from that point. And if they're used to go back and forth, that's fine. But yeah, like, that's the, you should want, I think that responsibility, and as a man, you should understand the massive weight of that responsibility. Because there's no getting away from a burden that you carry for your family. You can't go oh, well, you know, she shouldn't have done this. It's like, man, if you make the wrong choice, and they get hurt, your family gets hurt, because you made a bad choice. That's a lot of weights and don't go around like read, like, I don't know anything about like the red pill or the manosphere, or anything like that. I never got into that, from what I can tell. It's all like this alpha stuff, where you were saying where it's like, oh, just making a decision, bro, just, you know, be mean to her because you're an alpha. I don't know about that. But it's so much more and it's so much deeper than just making all the calls. It is that and it shouldn't be that but the other thing is, as I'm exploring and getting deeper into this, this Christian faith, which is very new for me, I'm called as a husband to lead my wife like Christ loved the church, and he sacrificed his life for her. Like that is a level of commitment that a wife is not called to buy,

Natalie 54:00

that's the part where the red pills or whatever you're talking about that that forget it's a consequence. It's the consequences you lead the decision is ultimately yours. But you carry the weight of the family on your shoulders. And I have seen you do that see me do that. Because if you want to be if you want the role of leader you also take the role of being responsible. Um, so was was that lead at leadership?

Curt Storring 54:39

Well, so that being said, our family roles are that I go and work all day and then I crack a beer afterwards. Natalie does everything. I'm just kidding. So yeah, the the obviously don't drink. Oh, yeah. You use it and drink beer all day and the kids do I don't know what they do, but at least I works. I don't I don't see it. Just kidding. So basically what it looks like, I mean very logistically is that I work, I own my businesses and Natalie does not nor has she since we got married. And that was a very conscious choice. You do however, do sort of like I don't know cottage industry stuff, like you will flip furniture, you will sell things in the antique mall, you will like redo and build furniture and sell them and stuff like that you've done art you've done. So all that kind of stuff. That brings in a couple 100 Few 100 bucks every month. And it's like, Okay, sweet. This is awesome. And it's not taking you away from your other responsibilities. But you get to have that artistic or, like accomplishment outlet or part of your life. And it's awesome. It's just like a cool, fun thing, because you're an artsy person and you like to create. So I'm working, I am responsible for the finances, I'm responsible for making them investing them and managing them. And I would say you are responsible for shepherding them in like a day to day basis, because you will go and get most of the groceries, and you will make most purchases for the children. And you will be with the children most of the day. And now that includes homeschooling, so you're completely extra and doing an incredible job. But there's so much of that I am creating the structure myself, I am coming up with where we're going by leading weekly family meetings and having a vision that I share with the family and rules and stuff like that. And you are executing, while also leading in the things like Home Economics, like cooking and cleaning and the children and all that kind of stuff. Is that fair? Like what else is there to break down?

Natalie 56:35

Um, no, I think that that's, like, it's pretty clear.

Curt Storring 56:39

The man does the man stuff the woman does. I know that I'm gonna get cancelled for saying that. But like, everyone knows what you mean when you say that? And no to say that anymore? Because like, I look, how would it feel to you? Here we go. Feminists listen up. How would it feel to you? If I said, Honey, I want you to be as equal as me, therefore go and get a job and leave our kids in daycare? How would you feel about that?

Natalie 57:00

As someone who spent a hell of a lot of time in daycare as a child,

Curt Storring 57:06

that part of go get a job because then you can be equal to me and you can have all your own money. Would that feel good? Or do you like it this way,

Natalie 57:12

I would like to know who is going to run my house, while I'm out there having this job and who is going to take care of my children, while I'm out there having this job. Because the thing is, is those things don't just go away, we still have to do them, or we have to be making enough money that we can pay someone else to do them. But just because both of you have a job doesn't mean that the cooking and the cleaning and the child rearing disappears, because you're suddenly on equal footing in your cubicles. Like it doesn't go away. It's still there. And it makes so much more sense to look at everything on the table in front of you and divide it up. You go you build, you make the money, you bring it home, and I figure out what to do with it for the most part, for the practical day to day things. And we have a close tightly knit family, we have a working budget that Lee has left us debt free for forever, we've never had that. We have a small but clean, nice home that is kept up constantly. Because we have been able to divide things up the way that we have. It would make absolutely no sense to me. Sometimes sometimes. I'm on Instagram, and I see women who have like their, their hustles or whatever, or their Boss Babes hashtag boss. And I get a little bit of like, Oh, I wish that I had something from me. You know, I wish I had I wish I had like a business or something like that. And then when I when I stepped back, and I look at that, and I go Yeah, yeah, that's true. I have those feelings. I do feel that. But at the same time, what would I be sacrificing in order to get that? Like, who would be raising my children in order for them to be away from me? So that I would have the time to do that? What would we have to cut from our budget in order to be able to afford somebody to clean my house for me? You know, like, or like, how many hours on the weekend? Am I going to have to sacrifice to clean the house when we could be like spending the time outside and spending the time with the kids like it doesn't it doesn't come for free. So I recognize right now like in this season that we're in, I'm committing to small children. I'm committing to the house. And in the long run, the benefits of that are so much greater than whatever I would receive from having a boss babe side hustle with my kids in daycare. Like that's That's not right. For me. I mean, personally, I think it's not right. But that's not right for me. And that's not how I think things should be done. So I'm totally cool with looking at those feelings and solving them for now. Because it's not, it's not it's not part of the bigger vision for us.

Curt Storring 1:00:23

Yeah. And I think it's important to note here, and you always gotta like, caveat this stuff, because someone's probably listening, going, like, oh, I want all that, but you just saying that, like you guys are entrepreneurial privilege, and blah, blah, blah, like, this is not kind of condemnation at all. I think that because we've seen how this works. And because of these, like, very deep set beliefs, and actual life, showing that this is the case, I would like this for more human beings. And I think this is the way that more people should live for themselves. But I think the biggest thing at play here is for the kids, because like you said, you're, you're going to ship them off. And it's like, what's the point, then

Natalie 1:01:04

you become a house full of individuals. That's what happens. You have the dad with his life and his job on the mom with her life, and her job. And then you have the kids with their lives and their job. And their job is to go to daycare, but it's still everybody gets up, everybody gets in the car, everybody goes to their separate places, and they spend all day apart from each other. And maybe they'll see each other for whatever their statistic is, like 36 minutes a day. And, and then I'll go to bed, or they're all watch TV and then go to bed. I'm

Curt Storring 1:01:34

sorry, just people watching TV, and I'm getting myself into more trouble.

Natalie 1:01:42

Of course, I come on, and you're gonna get into all the trouble

Curt Storring 1:01:45

canceled for saying don't watch TV all night dad

Natalie 1:01:47

works last episode when he had to wait. I'm sorry, I didn't want to cap anyone to get cancelled. Yeah, you end up with a household full of individuals. That's what I was saying, rather than a family. Because if you are honestly a family, then you are all working towards one goal.

Curt Storring 1:02:07

What are you optimizing for? What are you optimizing for in your family structure right now? And if it's not, like long term, family legacy, that and I really do not mean that financially. I think the only legacy that truly matters is your family. If you're not optimizing for that, as a husband and a father, like what do you do, man? That is, to me the only thing that matters? And so if you're optimizing for like, oh, yeah, must be nice, you know, we have to pay this like, well, then here's a couple ideas. One, dad take on a greater role and get paid more, let your wife stay home, take that burden off her because, again, it's not wrong, and that she's working is totally not wrong, and she's working. But in our experience, it doesn't work as well doesn't leave as much room. It's not the right order of things, when you're putting that burden on your wife. So dad become more of that breadwinner if you can do that. And if your wife wishes to stay home, which I've heard from a lot of women who tell me they do find a way to make that work. And if you can make it work with your life right now. Change your life. And I mean, literally find a different way to live, find a different place to live, find a different home, sell a vehicle, get an older one, we literally moved to Thailand three months after looking at it for the first time because we audited our life and said, Do we really need to live here? And we went back to first principles. It wasn't like, Oh, does this house workforce? It's like, Wait, does this place in the world work for us? And we got to travel, I wasn't making a ton of money then. But I was working online. And you can choose a hard thing, like moving to a smaller town or or like whatever, not spending so much on Amazon and Netflix, and whatever it is you do. There are so strong, there are difficult things, choices to make to lead you to life you want to live, but you have to be optimizing for the right thing. So again, not con not condemning, it might sound like that. And I apologize for that. But you have to be here for your kids. And if you're letting them be raised by someone or something else, that's not going to be for their benefit. So make the sacrifices now. Show up now. So that in the future, you guys have that tight family because I don't want anything else when I'm old. I don't want anything else now. 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now, then a massively tight family. Yeah,

Natalie 1:04:26

I met someone at our homeschool group last week. And we were just talking about getting into homeschool and why we decided to do this and she said, Oh, it was because me and my nine siblings were homeschooled. And I wanted to do it because I loved it so much. And she talked about her family. And I actually I met a human being who was doing something that her family on her parents had done, rather than the usual story these days is I'm not doing anything. My parents said I don't want my family to look anything like the family that I grew up with. Actually having like, met someone who like, had such a positive home family experience that they wanted to carry that on, they wanted to do the same things that their parents did. They wanted to, like build on that. They actually learned valuable lessons from their parents, they still had good relationship with their parents like, wow, that's that's the kind of like that that's the kind of thing that I mean, when, when I say legacy is like to do have to have that relationship, to have had a positive effect on your children to not be the parents of the children who turn around and go, I am never doing any of that I'm only calling them on Christmas. Like, that's, that's like real, that's real legacy. And it doesn't say it's some flashy or all that exciting. But like, that's the real, that's the real stuff off with the wheel family stuff. Yeah,

Curt Storring 1:05:58

it's not exciting unless you tap into your soul. And that is where it feels very exciting. And then guys, here's a process for you think about yourself on your deathbed. And ask what's going to feel comforting? Is it the fact that you worked more? Is it the fact that you built that add on renovation to your house? Is it the fact that oh, man, I got the new Porsche this time because it worked more, it was awesome. Kids have never been in it because they're always away? Or is it the fact that your wife and your kids are around you gratefully and joyfully weeping for the life that you've lived? Like, that's where we're all gonna get. And that's, that's the only thing that matters. And

Natalie 1:06:42

not to trash on your beautiful poetry here. But I think you can go back even a step further than that, okay? Go back than that, because you use the example of like, working and like buying a new car, or whatever it is. But think about it this way. Like, I really need to watch a few hours of TV before bed, because I had a really long day. And I don't want the kids to talk to me, I just need to watch TV. And it's every single night, things like that. So where you're putting your choices, it doesn't necessarily have to be working so that you can buy the car to have the it's where you spend your time. It's the little things that everyday things where you spend your time is it on shutting yourself away in your in your living room? So you can watch TV and not be with your family? Is it video games? Is it need? Is it all these things? Is it porn? Is it all these things that in the moment feel like they're serving you because they're helping you with your stress or their making you feel big air quotes, making you feel better in the moment, but they're significantly impacting the relationships that you have right now. And then the relationships that you're going to have in the future, because they're things that come up all the time, like the habits, so it's not just the car and the work and the big things. It is the habits that destroy that potential for like the deep relationship of lasting family.

Curt Storring 1:08:17

Yes, bingo. And that's what that is. Okay. So a couple of things that come up for that one is like, this is why you have to do the hard work this way, you have to do the hard right thing. This is why you need to decide that you are a man of integrity, who does the right thing, even when it's hard, even when no one's looking. Because that is how you build the stamina. And the other thing about this is that you got to be doing more when you think that you need to check out and when you think that you need to like oh, I have a break. And we I talked about this. You'll listen to the Ryan Carnahan episode, like one or two before this. So I go back and listen to that, again. He's talking about burnout. It's like, No, dude, burnout is your fake self. Trying to not let you level up. And so if you're like burnt out, first of all, audit your life what part of it sucks, stop doing that because most of us burnout because we hate soul crushing hate the job or the life or whatever we're living. So first of all, audit that don't go to pills. Don't go oh, man, I'm so broken. Stop having a shitty life. First of all, number one. Second about do more stuff, do more hard stuff. The last little while here. Like the more that I take on, the more responsibility I take on, the more dishes I wash, the more tired I am. The more hungry I am the more disciplined I am. I can actually do more. I've never done more in my life. I think you can probably attest to that. Right? And I've never had more energy. I am doing so much and like waking up so early and serving and serving and serving. And I feel great. And so guys, you know, don't kill yourself. But I guarantee you like look I was operating at a very high level in my own head. So who knows? Maybe not but I think so. And yet I had like twice as much to give. So how How much more do you have to give and how much more is on the table that you don't need to check out like that. And finally, I'm curious on this point for you, because we've been a little bit on a high horse here. And I totally get that if you're offended by this, first of all too bad Second of all, what genuinely I want forever. That's why I'm doing this work. I want for everyone to suffer less. And to be able to love more. That is literally why I started this because I almost ended it all. Because I was hurting so bad. And what I have done is I've figured out a way that works. And it might not be your exactly, it might not be even 50% of your way. But I guarantee that if you do some version of what we're talking about your life, your marriage, your children will get better. And so I will not apologize for sharing what I have seen work. And all of these things are maybe countercultural. Maybe they're the opposite of what you're doing right now. Instead of being triggered and saying, fu man, I just want to invite you to say, Okay, what's true in here for me? So rather than being condemned, is there something in here that could help. And it doesn't mean that you're wrong, it doesn't mean whatever it means that society sucks sometimes means that our culture sucks. Sometimes, your family system probably sucked in many ways, and you've let drift into your life. But could you be doing so much better by your wife, by your kids by yourself? Can you be looking at yourself in the mirror a little bit more? And seeing some self respect and saying thank you for the man you are. So use this as a wake up call just to see if there's a way to improve? Not to shit on yourself not to go oh, these guys don't know me. What can you get out of this, I'd rather trigger you now. That's what I do on Instagram all the time. Go look at my Instagram post dad worked out occurred there convicting on purpose, not because I hate you. Because I love you. And I want you to succeed. I want to call you out now. So that you are triggered now so that you do something now because it feels so bad. Notice where you feel bad and do something about it. Otherwise, you're gonna go 20 years, doing nothing sort of being like average, or mediocre or miserable. And you're gonna be like, Ha, maybe it's time to make a change, and your wife and your kids are gone. That's what you're up against your guys. So get triggered now great, be upset, whatever, but do the work now, because they're not going to wait for you to figure it out. So that was a big long tangent. And I would love to hear if you have anything to reel me in on before I go off the deep end here.

Natalie 1:12:23

Um, you know, I think it's really frustrating. Because, yeah, like, we were on our little high horse, they're thrown a little bit of shade and stuff. But the thing is, is that, I think now, both men and women, but we've been told that we can have it all women especially, we've been told that we can have it all we can have job, we can have the house, we can have the kids, we can have the husband, we can have everything. Yeah, but we can have it all. But even though we have the ability to take on more, something always suffers. And so like you said, like, look, we love you, we want your lives to be better. And here we are spouting off our stuff, because this is what works for us. And we we figured out how to fix some of our problems. And we want to be able to help people fix some of their stuff to what it really want is when it comes down to it is you guys to fix your shit so that your kids don't have to deal with it. Because, you know, when they when we say like we can have it all. And you believe you believe that? And we're over here being our counterculture. You know, saying that it takes sacrifice, and it takes hard work. And what more can you do? And all this, which doesn't seem to be the the message right now because you can have it all? So why would you need to work harder? Or why would you need to be better? Or why would you need to stand up straight? And whatever? I'm coming in saying no. Because when you try to have it all, the thing that's probably going to suffer are your relationships, and especially your relationships with your kids. We're seeing all this stuff, because this is what's worked for us. Yeah. And whether or not it's sort of popular right now to believe this anymore. We're saying this because it more or less puts the kids first. I think a lot of people believe that you can have it all. And I don't think that that's true. Because if you go into thinking that something is going to suffer, and the thing that usually suffers is the kids. So when we say all of this, we're saying this, because it's worked for us, and because not only do I want you guys to figure out a way not to suffer anymore. I don't want your kids to have to carry that burden.

Curt Storring 1:14:44

Yeah, that's what so much of this project was about is like if I don't figure this out, I will just pass it on to my kids and that's completely unacceptable. Like how much of your own father if you're listening to this, how much of your father's pain and suffering and weight loss unresolved are you carrying, because he didn't step in to break that cycle. And if you're listening this podcast, you're probably the type of person who is going to break the chains, you're going to be that chain breaker that cycle breaker in your family. That's hard. But man, you got to do it. And if what we have done can be some inspiration for you. And that's great. Obviously, we're not perfect. This is work for us. But yeah, like, it's just, from everything I've seen, and I'm in this space all day, every day, this is my literal job, this my business, the people who live lives, where they optimize for family, and not for society, or keeping up with the Joneses or, you know, equality or comfort, whatever it is, like they just do better over the long term. And they feel better. Like I know what it's like to wake up every morning and go like shit, I'm alive. Again, this is going to suck where am I going to screw up today. But we got over it, we got through it. It's very hopeful, because you also you can also get through it. And I guess it'd be like the last thing that I say about this whole tirade of Trad values hashtag traditional gender roles, is Yeah, you should, you should consider that and do it, if it works for you. If not, then see what you can take and and carry on. Just make sure that it's for your soul, make sure it's for service to your wife, make sure it is for bringing your kids up in the way they need to go. So I think that's it. One thing that we should just like, one thing that we should end on as well is just how difficult it is to stay connected. Even though we know all this stuff, we do all this stuff. We have very scheduled life and routine. We have weekly family meetings, we have sort of spousal check ins, we talk to each other as much as possible. And it's really hard right now, there's three kids, they're being homeschooled, you're pregnant, I'm building this business. Many days, we'll just see each other in the morning for a couple minutes. And then maybe when I come home for lunch, and then again, you know, throw throw dinner because we eat dinner together every single night, which is amazing. But there's not a lot of time together.

Natalie 1:17:09

Time has to be divided between us and the children too. Because the children love you so much and want your attention so much that sometimes like I have to be okay with taking my few minutes before bed Am I a few minutes in the morning because I know how much like around the dinner table. They want to talk to you and want to tell you stuff and want your want your attention then. Yeah, it's

Curt Storring 1:17:34

hard. We want more and willing to sacrifice now. And willing to be in it now because I'm thinking about this a lot going like man, it's really hard some days because sometimes when the kids will have a tantrum or the two year old will, I don't really want to get into what he'll be doing. And it's just like, oh, it'd be so nice. We could just go on like an extra date. Or we could just like take a weekend. Or we could just like hanging out and stay up late but I'm not gonna stay up late because I'm up so early and like I've done so much in the day and you've done so much there they were just passing out at like 930 or whatever it is. And we want more and one day we're gonna want this time back.

Natalie 1:18:15

Yeah. Yeah, I always do too. I was like, I always think about that especially when the kids are being horrible. It's just it because sometimes when they're being horrible the thought goes through my head is like oh my god I need to get away from you right now. I need to get away from you. And then the thing that will come into my head immediately is one day they will be away they will be gone and they will be here and so right now they're being horrible and I do need my space and I do need to set my boundaries and all that whatever but I do not ever want to wish them away because one day they will go away

Curt Storring 1:18:55

oh on that all right, I don't know if this is useful guys. I don't know if you guys want to listen to us sort of rant about various things and talk about where we went so this was either you're going to love this or you're going to unfollow me and honestly if you don't like this hopefully gonna follow me anyway because I just want to build a tribe of winners. So yeah, this is this this has been another episode of the downward podcast if you guys have enjoyed this please make sure to subscribe if you're not subscribed already. Apple iTunes, podcast, whatever it's called and Spotify, leave a rating and review. Hopefully you get one if you don't like it, please don't leave a review. But you can also find us on Instagram dad worked on current Twitter Curt Storring. And you can get our elite dad habit stack at Dad.Work slash habits. That is a list of things I do daily and weekly that will literally just make you into the man that you want to be with Neverland saw just a little bit of discipline. So pick that up. Thank you my love for being here with us. And

Natalie 1:19:58

don't let me be the reason why So think tanks.

Curt Storring 1:20:02

I'm saying this is that we're gonna accomplish this, but obviously we're not so No, I'm just kidding. You guys, listen to it soon. And thank you for being here with us. I really appreciate you listening to this. Share with your wife. If you think it's useful, it's sometimes fun just to get a new perspective. And let me know you think, and I will talk to you guys soon. Thank you for listening to the data worth podcast. That's it for this episode. But if you would like to stay in touch between weekly episodes, why don't you go over to Instagram and follow me there because I drop a number of things throughout the week that are related to what we talked about on this podcast, but usually go a little bit deeper, provide some tips you can find me on Instagram at dad work dot Kurt. That's da d w o RK dot c u r t. And please, if you have been getting something out of this podcast, if it has touched you if it has improved your marriage, your parenting or your life, would you please leave a quick review on Apple or Spotify. leave a rating. If you have a few extra seconds, leave a quick review. That's the best way that we can get this work in the hands of more fathers. And I truly believe that we change the world, one father at a time because each father that parents better that loves better raises children who do the same. And in just a couple of generations. I feel like we could be living in a world much better than the one we live in today. Your review will help along that path. And I thank you so much for being here to listen until next week. We'll see you then.

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