Today’s guest is Seth Studley
We go deep talking about:
- Being able to work things out with your partner when everything appears to be falling apart
- Why it’s critical to stop looking for reasons to leave, and instead start building trust
- Realizing that your partner will look for ways to see if you’ve truly changed
- Why you should avoid using the words “always” and “never” when arguing with your partner.
- Why it’s vital to be intentional in your marriage.
- Why being a lone wolf can be exhausting for a man, and why you should join a men’s group to connect with other men.
- The importance of always expressing gratitude and appreciation to your partner and children
- The need to prioritize yourself, your wife, and your children, rather than the other way round
Seth Studely is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Men’s Coach, and Marriage Expert.
For the last 15 years, he has been dedicated to helping men heal from their past, lean into their strengths, and build a life and legacy they can be proud of. Seth holds space for his clients to become more open with themselves and their partner. He dives deeper into the things that bring his clients fulfillment as men, husbands and fathers, and he strives to create a work-life balance that won’t burn them out at the end of the day.
Seth is dedicated to the growth and progress of his clients, working hard to ensure that they get the most from their coaching time with him. Seth follows a holistic model of Coaching and leans into the importance of all around wellness, bringing in elements like exercise, journaling, diet, accountability and more.
Find Seth Online At:
Curt Storring 0:00
Welcome to the Dad Work Podcast. My name is Curt Storring, your host and the founder of dad work. This is episode number 89. Building a thriving marriage after you've been punched in the face with my guest Seth Studley, we go deep today talking about being able to work things out with your partner when everything appears to be falling apart. Why it's critical to stop looking for reasons to leave and instead, start building trust. Realizing that your partner will look for ways to see if you've truly changed, why you should avoid using the words always and never when arguing with your partner. Why it's vital to be intentional in your marriage. Why being a lone wolf can be exhausting for a man and why you should find a band of brothers to connect with the importance of always expressing gratitude and appreciation to your partner and children. The need to prioritize yourself, your wife and then your children rather than the other way around. And of course, Seth story about being punched in the face, Seth Studley is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, men's coach and marriage expert. For the last 15 years he has been dedicated to helping men heal from their past, lean into their strengths and build a life and legacy they can be proud of South hold space for his clients to become more open with themselves and their partner. He dives deeper into the things that bring his clients fulfillment as men, husbands and fathers any strives to create a work life balance that won't burn them out at the end of the day. Seth is dedicated to the growth and progress of his clients working hard to ensure that they get the most from their coaching time with him. Seth follows a holistic model of coaching and leans into the importance of all around wellness, bringing in elements like exercise, journaling, diet, accountability, and more. You can find Seth online at his website anatomyofus.com on Instagram at Seth Studley, or you can listen to his podcast anatomy of us on Apple Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. Alright guys, we're gonna jump into this one. I'm extremely excited to have Seth on today. This was a great conversation. I really enjoyed what I was seeing from Seth with the content that he puts out and it was really great to hear that he has both a personal story and the professional expertise to bring to this not many people can put those two things together. So I'm very excited to have Seth with us today. I want to ask you guys a quick favor literally will take you five to 30 seconds. If you listen on Spotify, could you leave us a quick rating if you listen on Apple would you leave us a rating and even a review that's the 32nd option. Literally guys, this is the best way for us to get this work into the hands of more men. There's something about the rating algorithm and apple and Spotify that if you get the reviews it shows up for more guys. I don't know about you but I want to live in a world that has more fathers doing this type of work to support their families, their children and literally the future of the entire world. So if you want to live in that world to something quick you can do to help that out. It just leave us a quick rating and review Spotify Apple wherever you listen to the podcast would very much appreciate that. And if you don't already follow me on Instagram, that is where I am most active if you'd like to learn more and get more tips becoming a better man husband and father follow me on instagram DadWork.Curt DADWORK.CURT? Find me there. Anyway, that being said let's jump in episode number 89. Now with Seth Studley, here we go
all right. We are back with another episode of the Dad.Work Podcast. I'm here today with Seth studly, who has some sick tattoos, he got some cigar behind him. And I'm just pumped to talk to you today, man, because I think I found you on Instagram. And then I looked at your website. And it's like, Oh, this guy doesn't like pulling punches. Yeah. And he's got this incredible story about speaking of punches getting punched in the face. Yeah, I want to start there. Because it's like, you must tell it all the time, but it's so good. And just paint this picture of where you're coming from, and sort of gives you at least for me, a little bit more like personality and some humanity to be like, Man, you're working on this too, even though you are, you know, like, what is your what is your actual title like
Seth Studley 3:51
a licensed, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist? Yeah, yeah. Beautiful, man.
Curt Storring 3:55
Like, there's just so much but could you bring us back to the days of being punched in the face?
Seth Studley 4:01
Absolutely. Yes. You they were a dark day. They're very dark days. So my wife and I've been married for 17 years. And like you said, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and have been in practice, private practice and agency work for about 15 years now. And this was early on in our marriage. We were we were married about well, actually, I was in graduate school, to become a therapist, and we had just had our second kid and my wife had some postpartum stuff going on. And we were probably about, I don't know, five years into marriage, and you know, we would just fight and the way that we fought was just bitter. It wasn't it wasn't fair to either one of us and just fought all the time. Right. And we never really wanted to get a divorce. So she had obviously we had just had another little kid she was postpartum. So there's all the stress that uh, you know, we will she had and I had with postpartum depression. Another kid. So we have, you know, an 18 month old and now a brand new kid. And I was in graduate school I had three jobs. So we had a lot of stressful stuff going on. And at the time, we had seen this thing, talking about like, how truthful are you to your spouse and stuff? And it was talking about pornography and stuff like that. And like most guys, I'm like, Okay, well, yeah, I don't want to admit that to my wife, you know, and she just kind of on the spot, just like, hey, do you struggle with that stuff? And I, you know, I'm kind of a people pleaser. I was like, No, I'm cool. You know, kind of like most typical guy stuff. He's like, white knuckle it. We don't want to tell the truth about that stuff. Because it's embarrassing. It's, you know, you don't want to hurt your wife's feelings, right? For most guys. Don't a good husband doesn't want to hurt their wife's feelings on a good day. And I was like, No, I'm cool. And then I just felt you know what, I just lied to my wife. That wasn't cool. I don't want to be in I don't that's not good for a relationship. Right? So I went back to and I said, you know, hey, I lied, I have been struggling with these things, right? And she just kind of lost it. She was postpartum. Right? And so about two weeks after that, we were still fighting every night, just like our lives were just a living hell, right, like fighting until 2am. Every morning, miscommunication, hurt feeling saying all this stuff. And then I come home one day, and my stuff is in a pile. I'm like, Hey, what's this kind of going on? And she was outside. And actually, I don't haven't don't include this part much. Right? So we were kind of standing face to face just like talking. She was you know, she was upset. And she tried to like, kick me in the nuts. So I blocked it, right, just kind of that, that instinctual stuff that most guys do. And boom, she came around with a right hook. And it I swear, it just landed so solid, like more solid than I've ever been punched in the face before. And I was just shell shocked. I'm like, no, nobody gets married. To think, Oh, my wife will maybe eventually punch me in the face. Nobody thinks that on their wedding day. Nobody thinks about any of that stuff, right? It's like Mike Tyson. You know, we all have a plan until we get punched in the mouth or punched in the face. And so boom, I got punched in the face. Here. I was two kids, married five or six years and studying to be a marriage and family therapist. So that was a huge wake up call for me. And that was just a really big deal. I just kind of walked away. I was like, What is going on? What is this? And I had a lot of thinking to do after that. Now, I'm not condoning domestic violence, obviously, in any way. But that punch that she gave me was a wake up call for me. And also a wake up call for her. Like, what even she has said in in past podcast interviews. What did I do? Like I was so wrong for that, like so, so wrong. And then so fast forward, literally about a year and a half our next two years, our next year and a half was a lot of growth mindsets, a lot of living hell, but we decided, Hey, what are we doing what is going on? I didn't want to get a divorce. She didn't want to get a divorce. But we didn't know what to do. So we just looked at each other, and finally woke up and we were also going to counseling at the time, finally woke up and said Oh, you this is us saying it to each other. You are not responsible for my contentedness my happiness or who I am as a person, right? And prior to that time in our lives, we were looking to each other to Why aren't you making me happy? I'm not happy, I'm not content, what must be you? It's your fault kind of thing. So there's just the back and forth. So that was the really the actual birth of Gus us going, Oh, shit. I have more control than I think I do. I don't need to look to you for happiness, love content, all that stuff to be happy. First, I find it myself. And then we build it together. And that's what we were lucky enough to do to start the process of. And now we walk couples through that every single day.
Curt Storring 8:54
Man, that is such a good segue into everything. Because it's like, look, you're not just like doing this from your desk. You're not like, oh, yeah, tell me about your problems. And like, I don't even know what those are about. But I'm gonna like just terrifies you anyway. So no, I've gone through this. And it was pretty bad. So I love that you share that. And thank you for being so candid. Honestly. I've got a bunch of questions. But now I'm just curious, because I felt as though I went through similar process with my wife, you know, thankfully, without the black eye, but we were just like one of those things were we were not going to get a divorce. And I think that was because you know, both of our parents had got divorces. It was just one of those things. We came into this like, we will work this out regardless. And I talked to people every day who was like, Yeah, we were like that, but we just couldn't make it work. There was something in us that was like, we trigger each other so bad. We what I like to say trauma bonded. You know, our inner child, we're reaching out to each other and they're just triggering the hell of each other. And I wish that I could say it was x y Zed, which led us to who's staying together and now thriving after 10 years? But like, that's one of those things that I don't know, man, is it just my personality? So could have you figured out in your life? What it was that actually kept you working? Because for so many men, it can just be easier to be like, yeah, it's not working, I'm gonna quit. So what was it about you if you know that a made you stay with it,
Seth Studley 10:21
you know that I'm gonna just speak to a point on the said, like so many men just go on and on, you know, I can quit like I remember I had conversations with my mom because I you know, talk to my parents a lot about this when we're going through this stuff. And I was like, You know what, this is almost verbatim. I was like, I wish she would cheat on me. So I could have a reason to be like peace outs, you blew it, I'm done kind of thing, right. And she wishes the same thing she was trying to where she was actually, unconsciously or subconsciously trying to sabotage the marriage, because there was we both had so much hurt. And it would have been easier for her to say, Oh, see, he walked out on me, he left me but she was treating me like crap the whole time. You know? So we but both of us decided, okay, just in the back of my mind, sometimes it was the smallest spark. Other times, it was like shining bright shining as the sun. In the back of my mind, I was like, I did not get married to get a divorce. I've always been like, growth mindset. Like if I put my mind to this, I actually can do whatever I want to do. And that was one of these things. I was like, Okay, I'm not giving up. I'm going to just hound dog this until it works. And that's what I did. And luckily, that's what brought her that was one of the things that brought her back, she was like, This guy's serious. He's been consistent on what he said he was gonna do, he's doing what he said for I don't know, the repair time was like a year and a half, two years. And that was one of the things that brought her around, of course, she didn't want to divorce, either deep down. But both of us know, without a shadow of a doubt that it would have been 8 million times easier to be like, Alright, peace out, I'm out of here. You know, and not really thought anything of it. Our kids were super young. You know, one was just born one was only 18 months or maybe 22 months old, they would have had a fine life, you know, like Divorce isn't the end of the world. I'm not condoning it, or like not not. I'm not damning it either. But the kids would have been fine. But that was just something that we did not want. And one of the things that she says, she says, You know what, I didn't want my kids to grow up without a dad. Because she married me, she loved me, there was a lot of great things about me. She didn't want my kids to miss out on that, or her kids to miss out on that, you know, and likewise, I didn't want my kids our boys at the time to like, not have a mom around. And I have that nurturing love thing that only a mom can do. So yeah, one one, I just kind of like dug my heels in, but not in a stubborn way. But a like a very determined way. If there's a difference there. You know, I wasn't weird. I wasn't a jerk. I was like, No, we're not doing this, we're, you know, going to ride it to the wheels fall off. Maybe instead, it was a loving way. It was like a loving determination, a loving steadfastness that was like, that's not an option. You know, it's kind of like, you know, if you want to take the island, you gotta burn the boats. And I had never even heard that statement, you know, until just a couple years ago. But that was the mindset that I had. I'm like, okay, nothing else matters. This has to be repaired, built 1000 times better, and has to be thriving. And that's, that's what we both did. Thankfully, we both did that at the same time.
Curt Storring 13:32
That's amazing, man. And good for you. That's such. So inspiring to hear that. And what comes up for me is like this. I did go through similar things insofar as I was, the aggressor might not be the right word, but like the one who is making things terrible in the family. And obviously, we both have some responsibility for that. But I see that my anger, my, you know, need for control all of these unprocessed emotions in me, was leading me to be quite a bad husband and father. And it was quite a long process. I've talked a lot on this podcast about that process. But there came a point where I had legitimately changed. And I had initiated myself into manhood and healed a lot of my wounds. And clearly, that's ongoing. But there was this time, and I was like, I'm good now. And she's like, Yeah, right. Like, you just got you got five, six years of evidence against your body. You know, prove it show me. And so what I ended up going through and I wonder if this is similar in your sort of, like, repair period that you mentioned that year and a half ish that it was, I felt like I was challenged. Even more when I was like, so called fixed. You know, I was like, oh, everything's gonna be great. I can love openly I'm more calm, like, this should be a cakewalk. And she's like, Nope, I'm gonna do everything I can to test your resolve. And I wonder if you see that coming up a lot, because I warn guys about that just from anecdotal experience. But is this a thing that you see as well in marriages where one party says they've changed, but then there's like, This test to really solidify that rebuilding of trust.
Seth Studley 15:03
Yeah, and I think I mean, that happens with all kinds of stuff. Like, you can make a big payday kind of thing like, Oh, I got $100,000 bonus or whatever, Yeah, we're good, we're good. But that eventually runs out unless you invest that money or continue doing the things that got you to that point. like Tony Robbins says, if you're not growing, you're dying, right? So we, my wife, and I also do high performance marriage coaching, right? And here's how it goes. So we work with clients for a minimum of 90 days. And usually, depending on who calls in who really want to, is advocating for the couple to do high performance marriage coaching, let's just say, Okay, it's the wife, right? So the wife, you know, we start meeting as couples, we focus kind of kick the kick, the husbands asked for a while, you know, and he makes really market changes, right? And then the wife has to adjust to those changes, like, Okay, who, who are you, whereas my husband kind of thing, and then the focus is on what the wife has been contributing to the problem, right. And so it's like, oh, now it's her fault. And then like this, this other process, so one, one person changes, right, the other person sees that change, now the spotlight is on them to change. Now, they're both have some degree of change. And that's when the, that's when it gets harder, that's when it gets more difficult, that's when you really have to dig in, and lean on the work that you've done, and then not take for granted the work that you've done, and then really focus on okay, we're making progress, we're making progress, we cannot just sit back, because that's so many couples, like get to this point and go see she's the same, he's the same, they're never going to change kind of thing. But that is the absolute point where you have to dig in, it's like working out or exercise or anything. Like sometimes, the times when you absolutely do not want to wake up and go run, that is the time you should, you know, like, if you're on the eighth rep of the force, fourth set, or something you're doing bench or legs or squats or whatever, you're like, oh, my gosh, this is so hard. This is hard, you know, your legs are blowing out. But this is so hard. That is where the most change happens. And that is where you least want to do it. But that is where you most have to do it. You absolutely have to do that. Because that's where the change incrementally happens. And same thing with emotional stuff and marriage and stuff. You have to dig in when you don't want to dig in. And trust me, me and Melanie have had so many, you know, 1:32am, three 3am fights of where this is the worst. I hate everything. I don't care. But one of us softens and goes, Hey, sit with me. Let's figure this out. And we are so much better. Because of that, like that, that two minute conversation. We're both our hearts soften. And we're like, Okay, I'm sorry, I love you this or this or whatever. It's like that's where the real growth happens.
Curt Storring 17:55
Man, yeah, thank you for sharing that, too. That's, it brings to mind like this, this idea of fighting, you said before, like, you know, the the two o'clock fights? And have you got better at fighting? Is there a way to fight properly? Or is there a way to repair sooner, like, which is more important learning to fight or learn to repair? Or is it a two way thing?
Seth Studley 18:14
I think it's both. Right. And so communication is a big thing. And Melanie, I talk about a couple things on the show of a couple of really quick tips then that couples can do. And one is really get clear on your communication styles. What you say what you don't say. So there's a lot of research like Dr. John Gottman, a researcher down here in the States says to when when we say things like you always or you never do this, those are like absolute black and white statements. And usually, that puts the other person on like, Well, wait a minute, I know exactly of the time when I did do that thing, or when I didn't do that thing. So then you're kind of like at an impasse. Right. The other thing that he talks about is sarcasm and critical illness, never has a good never, it's not really beneficial at all is not beneficial at all, to be sarcastic to your partner or criticize your partner. Because whenever those things come up, it immediately puts you or the opposite person on the defense. If I was like, you know, yelled at you and said, Curt, why are you late? You're always late. You're like, what, what is what is the initial visceral emotion and you you go, Okay, we just like you brace yourself to defend yourself, right? So soften your stance, like really examine your use of critical words towards your partner sarcasm towards your partner, and the use of always or never, because those four things can really mess up communication and get you stuck in a cyclical pattern of like we're fighting about the same thing over and over again. But if any, if anyone can eliminate those four words, I bet you you would see a reduction in fighting and like you You wouldn't you would break the pattern in that cycle of fighting. Another thing that Melanie and I talk about is really key in communication is simply asking what the others expectations are. And we tell this to our clients all the time. And we use this daily, well, maybe not daily, but every other day, and especially on the weekends, when like kids in a were at the house more, right? We say, okay, so you wake up on a Saturday morning, and you just ask your partner, Hey, what are your expectations from now until 2pm or something? Well, I was going to cut the grass, I was going to take the dogs on a walk, I have to go to the store to get groceries, I was going to hang out with a friend, whatever. Oh, you didn't tell me those things. Because I was going to do this and this and this. Oh, let's get on the same page of what your expectations are. And then you can say so Hey, honey, my expectations were I wanted to go play golf with my buddy, because he's in town, and then go have a beer after that be home around 3pm and eat supper with you and the kids? Oh, okay, that's fine. So you actually you're not assuming anything. Because assuming can act like a vacuum also, like if I assume that she or he or they are going to do something. Most likely, I'm more likely than not, I'm wrong. And then the vacuum of what I think they should do, or what I expect they should do just comes right in. And that's when also communication breaks down. And fights occur. So dropping those four things, like I said, sarcasm critical speech, saying never and saying always in a fight. And then also asking, Hey, what are your expectations for the 1234 hours outs? You know, what are? What are your expectations for this week? Well, I'm slammed all week, or like, you know, I don't know, we have Labor Day off down here in the States, we're gonna take it, we're gonna have a cookout, whatever it is, like being really clear on your expectations.
Curt Storring 21:57
And that that rings so true. But it's so hard if you've never been brought up in that. And so I think like, a lot of this work is simply Well, a lot of why I like to share this kind of stuff is because so many guys just haven't heard of it. Like I didn't hear but it takes it took me like randomly stumbling upon this stuff, like by John Gottman. And by all these other guys, we're talking about communications, nonviolent communication, all these other books. It's like, I didn't even have any, like, I never saw my dad do this. I never saw any of the men in my life do this. And it's so basic. When I think about my communication style. Now, it's just like, always be curious. You know, like, what, what are we missing here? What are you expecting? How can I support you? Like, what are you thinking right now? And just going and asking rather than like you said, making assumptions, because in that spot, I think develops a lot of resentment as well for something that doesn't even exist yet. Like, why would you just ask? And so what do you think it is? It stops guys from actually asking, you're doing this? What do you what is like the biggest barrier to having guys be like, oh, yeah, this is it?
Seth Studley 22:55
Yeah. Well, so you talked about, yeah, I never saw my dad do this or other guys do this. So I'm a Family Systems trained therapist, right. So we look at so family of origin. Just think of your family tree. You know, like, you have all these branches, your grandmas, your uncle's your auntie's, your brothers, your sisters, your dad, your mom. So your family of origin, the the family that you grew up in, it doesn't have to be biological. That has been called the University of relationships in your family of origin is where you learn to do life. Are you a hard worker? Do you have integrity? Are you lazy? What do you think about money? What do you think about marriage? What do you think about siblings? What do you think about religion, politics, all that stuff you learn from your family of origin. And oftentimes, we learn these things unknowingly, unbeknownst to us, and our family of origin. We come of age, we have relationships, we get married and go, Oh, wait a minute, I'm repeating what I saw. Right and oftentimes, full, I believe that most people do the best they can with what they have, barring any kind of psychological stuff going on. Right? We all try to do the best we can with what we have, right? So our parents probably hopefully tried to do the best they can with what they have. And there are going to be some times where like my dad, all he saw was yelling. So now he yells, my mom all see, all she saw was being critical and sarcastic and shutting down. So I'm going to take that and have an amalgamation of okay, that's what I bring into my marriage, right? But also, there's positive things like oh, my mom was very loving. My dad worked really hard and did a lot of nonprofit work. I'm bringing that into my marriage as well. So family of origin can be the University of relationships, it's where we have, it's where we learn how to do relationships, and we go to what we know. Right? So you know, like, neural pathways, all the stuff we go to what we know. So if I know, sarcasm, yelling, shutting down, I'm bringing that straight to my marriage. Unless there's some sort of break in the system, maybe I read a book about growth mindset, maybe I talked to a youth person, maybe I, you know, had a mentor that I worked with, or a teacher that kind of like shook me up, right. And I remember my 10th grade class, it was a psychology 101, like in high school down here. And it was my first introduction in 10th grade into like, the power of the mind. And that I can really trace that back to my origin story, like being a psychotherapist, and like taking a ton of psychology classes in undergrad and grad school. And so it was that one person that kind of helped me go, oh, wait a minute, things are different, right? And then, of course, reading books about growth mindset and listening to podcasts doing what you do. It's like always being curious now is like that, that that thing sparked for me. So I would tell listeners who maybe it's if it's the first time they've heard about growth mindset, probably not your listeners, because I bet they're savvy, of growth mindsets. Family of Origin is like, Okay, think about your mom, your dad, your your the family that you were raised in? How do they do things? How do they talk to one another? How do they communicate? How do they plan? How did they not plan? How did they fight? How do they show love and affection. And if you didn't like any of those, first of all, you have the absolute power to change that. But first, you have to be aware of it. Like, oh, I don't want to perpetuate this in my family anymore. Let me go out and listen to podcasts, go to counseling, get coaching, read books about this stuff. So I can have the tools to affect my marriage in a different way than how I grew up. And guys and ladies that do that really find the most growth and the most satisfaction after they've been doing the work for a while?
Curt Storring 26:44
And is this what you're talking about in the note that you send, which was about intention, and how it plays a role in marriage and parenting? Because when I look at this, it's like, I wish that more people would focus on intention rather than inertia. Right, get that like click from drift. I think it's from Napoleon Hill, it talks about this, like, there's this drift that we all go through, but like, You got to click it into intention. And so is this where you're sort of going with that idea? Yes,
Seth Studley 27:10
absolutely. Because there's there's this one saying what is it it's um, and I think it was on it was Pirelli tires. It was power is nothing without control, right. So you can have the biggest engine and the most horsepower in the world. But if you don't have appropriate wheels, too, have that energy go through, then you're just out of control and crazy, you'll drift you'll do all kinds of stuff, right? So we can learn all these lessons, right? We can read Napoleon Hill, we can read all these growth, mindset books, listen to shows. But if we don't have intention, that turns into action around that, then then what what does that do? You know, then we just end up with a huge shelf full of books. Yeah, I've read those. But I haven't done anything from reading those. And then we're most likely in the same spot we are right. So intention in marriage. So intention in marriage, in my opinion, means that you have to go back and have intention in your own individual life. Like I said, at the top of the show, you know, me and Melanie were crazy looking each other for you know, all the support and the love and all this stuff. But it wasn't until I looked inside and took like a Jocko willing Extreme Ownership approach to things. And go, oh, I can control much more than I realize I can write. So I can be intentional around all the areas of my body bio psychosocial and spiritual areas. And when I do that, when I'm intentional around those, what does that translate to I show up as a better man, husband, father, worker, human in all areas. Why? Because I set the intention. Because all of us know what it's like to be not intentional, right? With our money with our diet with our date nights with anything. And then what is it enough are like, Oh, well, I'm 15 pounds heavier. Not as much money in the bank. And me and my wife are just kind of roommates. Now, none of us want that. Right? So if we absolutely focus on intention in a couple of key areas, then if you do that long enough, you'll see these other areas in your life and your relationships, especially grow to something that you actually can be proud of something that you can actually say, Yes, I like this, I enjoy this. I want to be I want to continue on this path. And like you were saying, once you like, see how it can be like you never forget it, you're always going to be curious, you're always going to be wanting more. You know, it's like I can't get full enough with all this growth mindset with like being closer to my kids being closer myself being closer to my wife. There's no There's no limit to that. Why? Because it's abundant. And it's infinite. As long as I keep on searching for it and going after and being intentional around it.
Curt Storring 29:50
Yeah, and one of the things I was going to ask was like, Okay, how do we how do we even do this? You know, you start but then I think you just said the answer which is you know, once you get a taste, I don't know how you could stop, at least that's for me. You know, like, I got my spreadsheets, I got my notes, I got calendar reminders to check in with parts of my life so that I don't forget, maybe it's fitness, I'm slacking on. Maybe it's relationship, intimacy, whatever. But there are little reminders. But I do think that like, once you just get one sense of, Oh, my goodness, I'm not just the way I am forever, and I can do something different. That's awesome. And that opens your eyes. But is that just me? Or do you see clients who struggle with that? And who need constant reminders? And if so, what do you do to get them on that track?
Seth Studley 30:30
Yeah, no, it's absolutely not just you, it's me, and every single client that I've ever talked to in therapy or coaching wise, so once they see that you would have to really be checked out emotionally to go. Yeah, that one thing was awesome. But it's too hard. I'm gonna go back to this. You know, like, sometimes we have, we may have small breaks. So I don't know if you've heard of a program called 75. Hard. It's pretty popular down here. Anyway, I've done it three times before. And I just started again, three days ago, and doing things like that, like, I know how great I felt like, you know, Midway, 75, hard, 35 days, and like, I'm looking lean, I have tons of energy. I'm strong, everything is hyper dialed in, right. And so that's, that's kind of like about the tip is toppest level that I that I can get, right? So I know what that feels like, smells like looks like tastes like. And I don't want to not be in that. Now. You can't. You can't just go balls to the wall all the time, it has to be sustainable, right? But that is like a great reset. For me like, Okay, I'm never going to forget how amazing I felt emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, when I was doing these things, right? Unless you're just super checked out. And you're just like, Okay, I'm numbing everything out which other things are having to happen in your life? If that's the case, but you're not going to forget that. So what do you do? You go, Okay, I know how that feels. I want to continue it. What do I need to do in my area, and I've identified five main areas, and I have a group called the badass husband mastermind. And we talk about these five main areas. And when we are dialed into those five main areas, I find I've been doing this work for a minute. That is when we are like hitting our stride. And is it's a sweet spot. Right? So those five areas are body, brain, bank beliefs, and board and body has everything to do with body obviously, food, diet, sleep, water, sex, movement, all that stuff. Body bank is not only financial assets, but what are you investing your time into? Are you investing your time into Facebook, and Instagram? And just stuff that is kind of meaningless? Or are you investing your time in your your own your portfolio, your career? Your wife, your kids, your family? Body, bank? Brain? What are we inputting into our brain? What podcasts? Are we listening to? What content are we consuming? What are we reading? What are we creating, right? And then beliefs talks about spirituality? And not just spirituality from a religious context? But like, how do you make meaning of the world? Like what is your place in the world? Like your spiritual place? Right? And again, that's not from a religious context. And then lastly, your board? Who is your board of directors? Who are you allowing to speak into your life? And who are you speaking into the lives of others, you know, that saying, I believe Zig Ziglar talks about you are the sum of the five people you hang out with the most. So I want to make sure that my board has a growth mindset that has accountability, that gives encouragement that calls people on their bullshit that kicks each other's ass, and is willing to get their ass kicked, and have that feedback. And then we grow. At the same time, since I'm the sum of the five people we hang out, I hang out with the most, I want to make sure that all those guys are striving to have that dialed in. And it definitely doesn't mean that you have to be perfect all the time. It means you have to be aware of it, you have to be focused on it and intentional and you want growth, you got to be curious about it.
Curt Storring 34:08
How much of what you're seeing in your work comes down to male loneliness. And I ask because your your sort of like badass husband mastermind is amazing. And I'm so glad you're doing that. Because I like that's the work that I'm doing too. And in a sense, and men's group, you know, just getting guys together so that we can have a board at all. And I'm seeing a lot of guys who come into like the first meeting and go, Oh, I didn't even know I needed this. Yeah. Is that a big part of this as well? Because man, that board is so insanely useful for me and I just discovered it. And it's been so long, lonely. So like, again, am I alone here and I don't I bet I'm not so could you knock that?
Seth Studley 34:47
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, that's funny because I had one guy, it was like our first now's our second meeting. And he was man in the middle and this time so all the focus was on him. And he was like, man, what just happened here was where at the price of admission, I can't believe it. I didn't know that I needed this. And I was like, yes, that's amazing. Because a lot of times here in the West guys especially grow up with some sort of sense of, okay, in order to make it in this life, I have to not reach out to other people, I have to white knuckle this. And if I don't act like I have it together all the time, then I'm less of a man, a human or whatever, right? And those things aren't true. And when we get with other guys who can validate our experience to go, Hey, man, I understand what you're saying, I felt like that, too. Am I crazy? Am I the only one? No, you're not the only one, right? We all want belonging. If you're a man or not, it doesn't matter. And I mean, that's just a moot point there. We all want belonging, we all want to feel like we belong, we are part of a bigger picture, and we want relatedness to, you know, it's like, okay, if I have an argument with my wife, Melanie, I want to be able to talk to another guy, preferably guy, because we have a shared experience, obviously. And go and hear him say, Nah, man, you're not crazy. I hear what you're saying, Have you thought about this? Or like, yeah, I dealt with this too. I can relate to that. And just that, like, it's like, it's like, walking downtown somewhere and seeing somebody with like, the same band t shirt on, that's your favorite band, you know, it's like, Hey, man, you know, you just give a head nod or something like that is that relatedness piece. So when we intentionally build groups and build programs, with guys who were invested financially, and timewise, which timewise is much more valuable than than money, we can't create more time, we can always create more money, then we get real growth there, right? We're not just hanging out with high school friends who were still wearing pajamas at 2pm, you know, playing video games, or hanging out with other guys who have like minds like interest. And we're not all the same, of course. But the one through line is I want to grow, I want you to grow, Let's grow together, kind of thing. So when we get together like that, it's just like, mind blown. And I don't know about you. But like, in high school, I played sports. And I had that camaraderie on the teams and stuff, you know, you know, for four years, because that's all high school is, you know, some guys have that in college, my college experience, I didn't play sports in college. So that kind of incrementally went away, you know, and then, oh, we're married, we have careers, we have kids, it is really hard to find time to go hang out with your buddies like that, you know, much less take a three hour bus ride or something like we did on high school to an away game or something like that. You're with your friends all the time in that way. But as we get older, those things go away again. So going back to intention, it's not just going to magically happen. You know, like, my friends aren't calling me all the time saying, hey, let's hang out, what are you doing? What's going on? I have to be intentional around that and either reach out first, or create the groups of like minded men. For this for this stuff to happen. It's all about intention. And if you want it, it is out there. You just got to go get it.
Curt Storring 38:22
Yes. And one of the guests on this podcast, David Stegman. He said, like, what did he say? I think he said, All men crave this type of depth and connection, but nobody ever invites them. And so that's what I'm hearing is like you do the inviting. Make it so that the other guys in your life are coming to you make it so you're the one reaching out it. Like for me, sometimes it gets annoying. I'm going like, ah, you know, I want other people to reach out to me. But I, what I want more than anything is to that connection. I don't care if I do the one reaching out. Like that's my skill. Sure. But it just takes like intentional connection. And I've had to work hard on that personally. Because I've just gone like, I'm a lone wolf. Like, it's all cool man. And like the last three or four years of doing men's work. It's like, wow, how wrong could I have been? And one of the things I say is like, especially as dads, lone wolves do not raise cubs, right? And lone wolves end up dying or they go back to the pack. So I don't know where this idea came from that lone wolves were super cool. But they're not at all. No, like they're weak in nature.
Seth Studley 39:22
Yeah, yeah. It's not sustainable. Right. That's so funny that use the term lone wolf because I used to do agency work and program development stuff. And one of my supervisors at the time, very smart, Harvard educated woman said, Seth, you do amazing work. But you're a lone wolf. Like, you know, and I was like, Well, yeah, but I'm doing all this stuff. And it's awesome. And she's like, I think you're missing the point. You could it's like that saying, you know, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far go together. Right? So I like you. It sounds like it's like okay, I really have to work to like, go together. They're, and make myself go together not just be out there the lone wolf thing all the time. And of course, there's times when silence and solitude is is key, right. But on on the most on the whole, especially with my wife and especially guys listening with their wives, your wife didn't marry you to be a lone wolf, your wife didn't marry you to be like, alone. In in the in the marriage unit I'm saying so for guys who maybe that resonates with really look and take a look and go, Oh, man, okay, this doesn't serve me. It served me once before. But the lone wolf mentality isn't serving me right now. And especially as we get older, as we want that connection as we want that sense of belongingness with other dudes. It's like, Nope, you can't be a lone wolf. Sometimes you gotta go first. But then bring other people along with you in that way.
Curt Storring 40:48
Yeah, man. Okay, I, this is such a natural, flowing conversation, I think I've asked you maybe one question I had written down, which is beautiful. And I really, really appreciate your energy, to be honest, I'm very drawn to what you're saying. And I agree so much just in my own life with whatever your what your what you're putting down here. But I'm trying to decide now, between a couple of directions. And perhaps we'll start with what you see in practice, around fathers, in terms of when they're showing up to therapy, what the typical issues are, is there like one or two points in a father's life that are more typical for him to wind up in that sort of Mack truck moment where he's like, Oh, no, you're I am? Or is? Is it just too hard to say? Like, is there is there a few times that are to watch out for for the listeners like, Okay, this is coming up? You know, age 10 is always this hard one? I don't know what you see. But is there anything like that?
Seth Studley 41:43
Well, it's so with fathers, I think, because I also did family therapy stuff. And mostly it was the women bringing the kids, the moms bringing the kids and the families in, sometimes dragging the dads to it, but like, you know that Mack Truck analogy is really true. So I would ask the guys this, like in your relationship to your children, or even to your wife. I give the analogy. So for those guys that you know, drive a car or a truck or anything, you keep maintenance on your car, you change the oil, you monitor the tires, the fluids, all this stuff, right? Why not take that same mentality and apply it to your marriage and to your fatherhood, right? Because no, nobody, at least if they you know, know anything about a car or whatnot, and you don't have to work on the car, but it's like, you just don't get in the car, turn the key and drive, you know, you got to put gas in it, you know, you have to keep the oil change kind of thing. Nothing is not just like set it and forget it. And oftentimes we take for granted. And once we get married once we have kids that like, Oh, they're fine, I'm just gonna go do my thing. You know, and people will be fine. It's like, No, we cannot have a set it and forget it. mentality. So one thing that we say one thing that we would would be wise for dads in this is, hey, if there's anything off is there if there's anything that you don't like about how the family is going the relationship with your kids, the relationship with your wife, set up some sort of family therapy, moments, right? It doesn't mean you're weak, it doesn't mean you're crazy. I bet you $1,000 That your wife would really appreciate that check in like, Hey, I'm not saying anything's you know, the wheels are falling off. But check out this podcast I listened to or, you know, these coaches have, you know, something cool going on? Let's let's check it out. Oftentimes, we, I think that the smart couples come to us for high performance, marriage coaching, and things aren't falling apart, the wheels are not falling off. They're like, Hey, we're doing pretty good, and have been for quite a while. And we want to expound upon what we know what we're learning, and just want to make things better, right. And that's the couples that really kind of elevate their lives. When Melanie I did coaching and invested the time and money in it. We were okay, we were out of the woods, so to say from the time that we were really in trouble. And we just knew that there was something more and we wanted to elevate that. So I would encourage the guys to Yeah, the wheels don't have to be falling off. You can always improve on something just look around. I can always sweep the floor more I can always trim the trees, I can always cut the grass or beautify the lawn or whatever. You can always improve upon your marriage doesn't mean your marriage is terrible doesn't mean your family's terrible. No, you can always improve your marriage or your relationship with your kids. Right? It was really funny. You're talking about kids. And we have a 14 year old our oldest and he kind of went through this phase around 13 where he was just like, didn't want to hug didn't want to do anything. He's just like very kind of, you know, teenage boy kind of thing. And I was like, oh, part of it made me sad because I remember him, you know, young, you know, wrestle and hug and goof around and stuff. And he kind of went away from that. And just recently, and I mean, recently in the last week or so, I've been being intentional around spending more time with him, taking him snowboarding, playing basketball out in the driveway, going on a run yesterday. And guess what, he's now kind of coming back, like wrestling around, you know, giving me a punch in the arm, give me a side hug like that. And that is the most rewarding feeling as a dad is like, Okay, I'm doing something, right. This is cool. And it reminds me that saying, you know, kids spell, L O V, E, ti me, right? It's like spend time, spend time because that's all I care about. And that's one way to be really intentional and also to invest in your kids.
Curt Storring 45:54
Beautiful, man. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. I want to talk about like the fundamentals. Now, I think because we've been going all over the place. And I think that's super helpful. Because these are very pointed and poignant ideas for dads listening, especially who are married, especially we've got kids in the home. But what do you consider the fundamentals? Like if someone's listening, going, Okay, I'm not really they're not super fighting. But I'm also like you said, maybe not at that level of like, I'm just learning myself how amazing marriage can be after 10 years now. We've been married and 10 years starting next week. And it's phenomenal. And I'm like, wow, I wish I knew. I wish someone told me earlier that it wasn't just something you did and hop from woman to woman like my dad did. Yeah, just hope to find the next best thing, creating that as beautiful. But what do you consider the foundational aspects of that, and maybe it's like the five points like you gave for the mastermind you have, maybe it's something else, maybe we've talked about it already. And if case, punted back to me, I'm happy to go elsewhere. But what is the fundamental of a good relationship and a partnership in a marriage, in your view,
Seth Studley 47:01
I would say that there's, there's several, and I'm just thinking in my own life. So I'm just not like, you know, taking this from books or whatnot. Making sure that you share your gratitude to your partner, like being thankful, Hey, I see what you're doing. I appreciate how you're showing up as a mother, as a partner, how you're contributing to the health of our family, showing gratitude and appreciation really goes a long way. Not only just like practicing gratitude practices for yourself individually, but within the relationship is really good. And I also have found that when I do what I say, and say, when I when I, when I say what I mean, and do the things that I say that I'm going to do relationship wise, and also to myself, it always works better. Right? So then my wife is building that trust, I become a person, a man, a husband, a father, that she can count on, and rely on and trust. And that allows her to show up in different ways to so keeping your word building trust, communication is huge, obviously. Asking questions, paying real attention to the ways that you do communicate, going back to like, you know, no sarcasm, no critical speak, or speech. Using words never always, really watch how you communicate to your partner, because you have the power to really kind of shut down a person or light them up. Right? If I if I was like, hey, Curt, you know, what are you doing? What's going on? You know, and just letting you know, no, no. I mean, depending. I mean, obviously, you know, this is a podcast. So, you know, would get an argument or anything like that. But you'd be like, Okay, what is this that would give that would that would create an energy in the room, right? Or if I said, Curt, so excited, man, your podcast is awesome. I love what you're doing. Keep up the amazing work, you'd be like, okay, that creates a good energy. So couples, men, especially in relationships have the power to really dictate. And women have it too. I'm not saying that they don't, to kind of like, set the tone. Right? There's this thing called mirror neurons, right? Usually we mirror the behavior that is coming towards us. Kids do this all the time, right? Like you usually smile. If you see somebody smiling kind of thing. That's a mirror neuron going on. You have to spend time together. You have to go on intentional date nights. We're not talking about the kids. We're not talking about work. We're just talking about things that you guys like to do. Remember reminiscing, like take time. fellow Canadian of yours, Jordan Peterson Dr. Peterson talks about like it has to be at a minimum of like 90 minutes a week with like 30 minute long other touch points within the week like you have to have that time. There's no kids. There's no work there's no outside stress, just to like connect with your partner, physically, obviously and emotionally. So those those couple of things is like what I try to practice in my life and setting routines to where you're like, okay, yeah, I'm putting the phone down, I'm paying attention to you and you only. And that just creates an environment where you can grow where you can build trust. And if you're not doing those things right now, in your marriage, I would really encourage listeners to think about, maybe the position you're in right now is because you haven't been implementing those things. And give it a try. Pay attention, like, oh, man, I've really missed the mark, I've dropped the ball on a couple of those things. I'm not going to do that anymore, right. And you have to show up and don't expect your wife or your partners to change just because you like, listen to one podcast, and like, Hey, I'm gonna try this out for a day. Now, that's not how it works. Resolve to like, dig in for, you know, 3456 weeks ago, okay, I am changing. I'm making this whether you change or not kind of thing. And this led that that burned the boats mentality, if you want to take the island, you got to burn the boats, I want this marriage to change. And I'm going to do I'm going to resolve to to change and most of the time, the partner will see it and then go, Okay, this is good. Let's keep this up. And then, you know, the same tide rises all boats, and then you guys can elevate together as what we call a parallel process. You're on the same process and going in the same direction at the same time close together.
Curt Storring 51:28
That's super cool, man. And it reminds me of I think I heard this from Tim Ferriss. It's basically like, how are you complicit in creating the conditions? You say you don't want? Yeah, and I think that's like, just the responsibility piece. And I often tell guys, that are coming to me with struggles. And I mean, I wish they would go to you, because you're the expert. But sometimes, the guys want to ask me, like, you know, I don't know if this marriage is gonna work, I'm going 50% in and my advice is typically, could you go 100% in for 30 days, and see how that looks? Because I almost guarantee you've never shown up at 100%, being the man of her dreams in a way that sets you know, obviously, boundaries and and making sure that your needs are met, and in a similar sort of way. But when have you ever been all in? And if you weren't, do you think that would change things? And for the guys who do it's kind of like, oh, yeah, oops, it didn't know I had so much power and not power over. But power to influence I like to say, and I have a question now actually related to this. And I was told, when we were going through pre marital counseling, we were told that the husband and the wife need to be the number one human relationship with one another. And so I take this sometimes say that it should be your wife, even before your kids. And a lot of guys get triggered with us. And they're like, oh, no, what do you mean? Like, my kids are so important to me, and my wife's like, she's sort of beside me. But I really think that if you focus on the romantic relationship, that everyone benefits, and I wonder if you have any differing opinions,
Seth Studley 53:06
yeah, I would actually add something to that. And, and guys can take this the wrong way really quickly. so hear me out. Put yourself first, then your wife than your kids. Because so many people have it backwards. They put their kids first, or their wife first. This is where me and Melanie really got messed up. I was putting her first and just forgetting my individuality. I was not differentiated. I wasn't happy. I wasn't happy or anything, if she wasn't happy kind of thing. So it was completely backwards. First, I have to find it in myself, whatever that is, your identity, your purpose, all these things? You have to find it and then focus on your wife. Yes, she is your number one relationship. Because guess what, when both of you are up here, you know, batting 100 How do you think the kids are going to react to that? They're going to see their parents communicating in a very healthy way. They're going to see them happy. They're going to see them content, they're gonna see them presents. The kids are going to eat that up. They're gonna go Oh, that. I mean, they're not gonna say this out loud. Because they don't know Right? They'll just feel it. They're like, Oh, Mom and Dad, I see them being affection. I see them communicating. I see them spending time. I see them like being respectful and positive to one another. than they're going to learn that right often going back to the family of origin piece. You and I right now are creating the family of origin of our kids. Think about that one, right? It's like, okay, I come from a family of origin, right? That's, that's old. I mean, it still is, you know, happening because my parents was alive. But right here right now. I am creating what my kids are learning how to speak to people how to treat their spouse, how to work, how to clean how to love how to communicate all these things. So I would say Yeah. I mean, in some circles, you know, people would say, okay, spirituality is first right then then your spouse, then you which I think that's kind of backwards, I say, it's like, okay, get right yourself, and then have a right marriage just like I can't pour from an empty cup, right? If there's nothing left in my tank, how the hell am I gonna, like show up for my wife or my kids? Right? First it has to be me now guys do not misconstrue that and go, Well, I heard the show. So I'm out to the bar with my buddies, putting myself first you know, I'm checking out all these credit cards and doing this and this. Now that's the immature that's a masculine immature thing to do, right? It's like no, invest in yourself through podcasts or all these other things that you know, are going to be good get right yourself, then you can show up for your wife. So yes, I agree with that. But with the caveat of like, yourself, your wife, then kids.
Curt Storring 55:53
Amazing, man, I'm glad you you. I'm glad you did that. That is absolutely how it feels to be. And I think it's right as well to give guys the general idea of what self care means. Like this does not mean you just get to go you know, NAMA like usual, this is growth for you. This is a loan time for you potentially, if that what is that is what lights you up and makes you feel better. But for me, it's walks by myself in the morning, it's going to the gym, first thing before anyone's up, it's meditating. It's doing some yoga, it's going for a run, it's hanging out with with good intentional friends, maybe once or twice a month, and just getting that time in. And that way, like I show up better, I like you said, I fill up my cup, and I can fill up absolutely this cup. Yeah, and I really think the point you made as well is important that as fathers, we are literally writing the future, we are authoring the future, because what you said about the family of origin, we are a product of our parents and our family of origin. Therefore, it's very clear our children will be a product of us. And I want to just hammer this into guys heads because the responsibility that that you know, bigots gives birth to creates whatever is enormous. Like imagine if you, you are probably more impactful in your child's life than any other single person in the world. And your kid will then go out there and live in the world and have perhaps a family of their own. And then that will be because of you. So why aren't you taking this as like the most number one most impactful thing you could do in your life as a father of authoring this the right way? So what do you want your story to be? In the future? As I like to say guys sometimes so I don't know if anything comes up on that. I want to be respectful of time. So do you have any anything to close with that we didn't touch on? Or maybe on just this point? Well, just
Seth Studley 57:35
to that point, there's the saying and parenting more is caught than taught? Right? Like kids are watching. They're listening. They're, they know what's going on, right? So more is caught than taught. In fact, my kids have said so many times. They're like, Hey, Dad, remember when you said that thing? I'm like, No, you know, I have no idea kind of thing. And especially when I was doing therapy with young teenage boys. It's like, oh, yeah, that thing you said a year and a half ago. I'm like, I literally have no idea that like, yeah, that stuck with me. And I you know, think about it every day, you're like, wow, more is caught than taught, you know, like even even the fact that you put your grocery cart back, you know, at the at the grocery store, do you hold a door for an old lady? Do you you know, if somebody drops a wallet in front of you, you know, do you do you take it and run? Or do you give it back to the person kind of things like more is caught than taught. So really pay attention to how you're walking, how you're talking? And what you're thinking because your kids are absolutely watching 100% all the time.
Curt Storring 58:32
Man, this one has fired me up like really, really fired me up. I'm so good man for your time and your wisdom. Where can people go to find out more about you and your work?
Unknown Speaker 58:41
Yeah, they can go to anatomy of us.com There we have. So we have podcasts, all things related marriage, you know, sex, family, everything. And then also, we have a Patreon only podcast and they can go to patreon.com ford/anatomy of marriage. You can also go to badasshusband.com To find out more about the mastermind group to really equip yourself with other growth mindset guys, and then for the ladies, my wife also started a mastermind and they can find that at anatomyofus.com Ford/women's group coaching so anything we it's all there on Instagram Anatomy Of Us Facebook as well.
Curt Storring 59:20
I'm gonna put all that in the show notes at Dad.Work/Podcast as usual so you can find Seth and everything that he just mentioned there as well as everything we talked about. And yeah, check out his podcast check out his programs work with him. I mean, I'm, I feel like I want to work with you. And I don't even feel like I want to do anything. I just want to hang out with you, man. So like thank you for doing this. Thank you for just sharing your wisdom. I really appreciate it.
Seth Studley 59:41
Absolutely man. Thank you so much for having me on. We really appreciate it
Curt Storring 59:51
thank you for listening to the dad worth podcast. That's it for this episode. But if you would like to stay in touch between weekly episodes, why don't you go over to Instagram and Follow me there because I draw up a number of things throughout the week that are related to what we talked about on this podcast but usually go a little bit deeper, provide some tips, you can find me on Instagram at dadwork.Curt. That's DADWORK.CURT And please, if you have been getting something out of this podcast if it has touched you if it has improved your marriage, your parenting or your life, would you please leave a quick review on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating. If you have a few extra seconds, leave a quick review. That's the best way that we can get this work in the hands of more fathers. And I truly believe that we change the world. One fathered at a time because each father that parents better that loves better raises children who do the same. And in just a couple of generations. I feel like we could be living in a world much better than the one we live in today. Your review will help along that path. And I thank you so much for being here to listen until next week. We'll see you then.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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